Elemental Forms

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Voragath
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Re: Elemental Forms

Post by Voragath »

They are requisites for the cores. It would be more work for him to remove the line than just to detach an effect. The effects are still good for low level characters so I doubt he'll remove them on that basis (yes, I know the game is at level 86-90 but devs don't care about that from what I can tell).

The illusions served no purpose before but were merely flavor. And he WILL give the illusions to us if we want them still. He's asking if we want the illusion tied to that aa. If we don't we can STILL GET THE ILLUSIONS as other aa's.

I don't see why it's so hard to understand. He's asking if we want the illusions tied to the effects. That is specifically why I mentioned the mount issue. Having those illusions split from those effects is actually a plus. So, if you want to talk about what if's, either way it's to our benefit to drop the illusion from the effect. If they decide to make a new rank of Elemental Form: Water and give it 100 regen, wouldn't you want to be able to have that benefit while on a mount? If they don't upgrade it, wouldn't you like to have that illusion separate so that the regen effect doesn't cause a stacking issue with another spell?

tl;dr Splitting the illusion from the aa is an all around win for everyone.
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svenalo
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Re: Elemental Forms

Post by svenalo »

Probably should just leave them as is. It's like all our spells. At leave 90 are you going to load up that pet you got at level 50, or the nuke from level 60? No. But at the appropriate time in a given character's leveling, those spells are important to them then. Same with the AA's. Of course that assumes people actually play their characters up from 1 to 90 and not get power leveled to 90 in a flash...at which point all that lower level stuff doesn't seem so useful anymore. But in it's time and place, it is useful.
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Savil
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Re: Elemental Forms

Post by Savil »

Voragath wrote:
Elidroth wrote:Quick question:

For your elemental forms. Keep the illusion or ditch it. You would still retain the benefits if we scrap the illusion.
Bolded by me. Either you want the illusion or you don't. The illusion will have no bearing on the functionality. The "future functionality" of these aa's exist in the cores more or less. It is a simple thing to tack mana regen onto the ice core effect.

All he's asking is if we want the illusion or not. He is trying to make database room and that is it. On eqlive, he even said he'd give us the illusions as an aa if we wanted.

So, can we please stop all the "what if" analyses and just answer his question with a simple yes or no? If you all keep up all the conspiracy theories, Jedis is gonna have to start making tin foil hats a mandatory requirement for the forums :lol:
Again, as has been stated before, if the AA's are not going to change, then keep the illusion. Its the only point of the freaking AA is the illusion as it stands now. If they AA's are going to be made useful beyond the illusion (you know, actually do something) then I wouldn't mind losing the illusion to make room.

Spending 10-15 AA's on a AA that gives you 4 mana regen is insane if you don't even get an illusion out of it. Thats all I / others were pointing out in the first place. Its not that hard to understand, not sure why such an issue is made over it. Elidroth can just say "no plans to upgrade the line" or "yes, we will" and do whats needed.

Enchanters have the same set of illusions and LOTS of items have this effect as well, there is zero reason to drop this for the reasons given. It will NOT save room in the global file unless all the items are changed as well as enchanters giving up there spells. IE Never Going To Happen.

There isn't any conspiracy theories here. Nobody said elidroth was lying. Nobody said he was trying to get something over on us. He asked us a honest question that some of us said we couldn't answer without knowing the future of the line. Some of you auto took this as we were yelling at the dev. This isn't true and is a bit on the foolish side.

*I* personally am almost happy with elidroth atm. He even started pushing out changed before the next beta cycle which is something I totally didn't expect. I've very happy he has shown he is willing to work with us and am happy to see where it leads. If you guys (you know who you are) want to keep trying to make this into something its not you will just create the drama you say your trying to stop. Let it go, I have. Once again, *questions* aren't drama. If you feel they are you need to stop and rethink a bit.

Savil
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Danille
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Re: Elemental Forms

Post by Danille »

And thus you have the problem. Many of the mages on this board can take a developer's question and just answer it.

Then we have the Alpha Ego mages, some of who clearly have another agenda.
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Malleria
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Re: Elemental Forms

Post by Malleria »

Did I miss where he said we'd definitely be getting an alternative means of casting the illusion if they did get split off? You can't rely on things like that to just happen. Even with an official comment that it'd happen you likely won't ever see it. Being a pre-req to the core lines is a purpose? Give me a break.

I'm happy to support any mage whose agenda is the betterment of the class. At least they give a smurf about real class issues beyond whether or not we have blue crap coming out of our backsides. But just incase there are others as thick as Danille seems to be: two of the elemental forms convey NO BENEFIT whatsoever except for the illusion.
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svenalo
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Re: Elemental Forms

Post by svenalo »

I believe the offer of a separate AA for the illusion was made over on SOE forums, not here, if I remember the post in this thread correctly. Not scrolling through all the pages in this thread and the others to find it though.

And you are correct. Only rank 1 of a given form is required for the related core line. However, while at level 90 they have no benefit, at the level they are intended to be gained they do. The problem with the view from level 90 is we forget all that, especially with the way people PL new characters and then want all the AA's at 90 to then mean something. Over on the classic servers, as an example, those form AA's are as good as it gets for quite a while because they are going to be earned/used at the level they were intended to be gained.
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Savil
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Re: Elemental Forms

Post by Savil »

I'm not sure how many AA's some of us have tied into the 4 forms, but I know its over 20-30. Only the first rank is needed. Most mages only use Fire / Stone core. Lets look at what the forms actually give:

* Air : Illusion, Levitate, see inv, all resists +25

* Earth : Illusion, STA +20, +200 hps

* Water : Illusion, EB, Decrease STA lose by 5, +4 mana regen

* Fire : Illusion, +30 DS, +20 INT, +5 effective casting level

Almost all of this is trash, the last time Wire and I parsed it, the effective casting level wasn't even working. Most of the effects are on gear or via AA's. There are some stacking issues as well. These stats are from max AA's.

Most mages are have played for a while have the elemental forms maxed. Again, I'm not sure how many AA's are tied into this but I know its over 20. Most of the stats we get from them are trash. So pretty much the ONLY reason to have the AA's is for the illusion you get.

If the lines aren't ever going to get changed / upgraded then no, I don't want to lose the illusions off them. Again, enchanters and many items also have these illusions on them, I'm telling you now there is no way enchanters are going to give up this illusion. Just isn't going to happen, and I'm one of the enchanters that would say no.

I only would go along with illusions dropping off the forms if the lines would be changed to give us something in return. I'm not sure why Danille has such a hard time understanding this very very basic concept. I suspect hes just trying to be difficult.

This entire thing could be solved with a quickie post from elidroth saying if the line would be upgraded or not. I don't really like the idea of having almost 30 aa's tied into something that does NOTHING for me. I don't care how easy AA's are to get now, I don't care if I can get that in 30 minutes. I don't want to lose something and gain NOTHING in return. Is this easy enough for you guys to understand?

Danille, you totally need to stop your nonsense. Your looking for stuff to nit pick and just being a tool. Elidroth asked a question, we answered it, you didn't like our answer and called us out on it. If you don't like our answer too bad. We have just as much right to ask if something will be giving in return for something taken away as anybody else. Stop being a troll already.

Savil
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Tacoma2586
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Re: Elemental Forms

Post by Tacoma2586 »

you realize your comment Dan means nothing right. the only agenda mages on here want is to better us. clearly you dont care bout mages but like to make comments that obviously are half retarded. for me i can live either way illusions staying-going and effects boosted or not so.
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Aither
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Re: Elemental Forms

Post by Aither »

Let's all take a breath and relax. Shake off all that tension, and start anew. It's Easter morning, bite the head off a chocolate bunny if you need to have an outlet. Now that we have taken a moment, let us try to be respectful to each other.
It would be sensible of us to recognize that infighting on a simple thread like this makes us look bad.
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Jedis
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Re: Elemental Forms

Post by Jedis »

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