Attenion Top Mages

[Baramos]

Top doesn't mean high-end. It just means you love the class and want to see it flourish.

Beta will be here before you know it. I urge you to read this thread:

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts ... _id=164579" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The opinions within are a sample of a sample of a sample of the playerbase, but you can still sketch out some conclusions to the extent of the idea that these are the same guys who are going to be posting in beta.

As we saw last beta, developers pay (too) close attention to that group of people. I won't speculate here on what any of that thread means, but I think it is important context for the community and I hope someone can lead a conversation at some point as to how to posture the Magician class during Beta.

About that, we need to have some kind of consensus and order in an easily (quickly) digested format for the dev crew since their general M.O. seems to be to take a glance, have a quick discussion, and then to make it so. Without looking back.

One important thing to note is dev attention and concentration is short, so it needs to be easily read, without too much verbiage, and make sense. It would be even better if some of the ideas could be floated out there on the eqplayers forums so other classes will have seen it and think "oh yeah I've seen they want that" and not be subjected to the first-time-bombast that always happens when some class wants something. Come beta the last thing you want is a bunch of thrash and screaming muddying up the water.

Everyone talks about DPS. You could bookend the discussion (each side) with DPS concern, and the 3 topics could address that. This is a good way to go since the "DPS factor" comes into play with spell DPS, Pet power, Mana regen.

Important note: We must be vigilant about Pet Power.

All that screaming that comes from the forum about Mage pets and "overpowered" Servants, then you see (in the noted thread) how undesirable Mages are to raids. If one believes the posts there, that is. That doesn't add up. It is that point from which to springboard (whatever our agenda turns out to be). I strongly believe our pets are going to flat-line in power and tanking next expansion if we don't push it.

I'd suggest something like (figure something good out, this is just one suggestion) two main concerns and a pet concern, each with 3 bullets underneath. The third bullet would be a "can live without" that we have in there for bartering. Like this, in other words:

Forward about DPS and Mage desirability.

Main Concern 1 (Spells for example):

* Bullet 1
* Bullet 2
* Bullet 3

Main Concern 2 ( AAs for example)

* Bullet 1
* Bullet 2
* Bullet 3

Pets

* Bullet 1
* Bullet 2
* Bullet 3

Summation about DPS and Mage desirability.

In short, tell them what you're going to tell them. Then tell them. Then tell them what you just told them. Do it short and sweet.

Bara

[Calebe]

I agree we must be vigilant and be sure we get what we need. Your list is good, but pets should be top of your list, and any list we put put. It has to be in front of spells, in front of aa's, everything. Pets are the number one concern of the mage and there improvement is a must. Mages anytime we have a non level expansion falls way behind as our main reason for being the pet is not upgraded and so with a level expansion it must remain concern 1 2 and 3. All the rest come behind it.

That said we must be sure our sustained DPS does not fall behind that of a wizard. The pet being the main way to gain that dps gain. If you think about it, mana regen is the Achilles heel of the mage class, if the pet dps is raised mana is not as imperative as the pet is basically mana free DPS. So the more dps it does the better, and the less mana we use to stay competitive in the DPS department.

Of course for the pet to do DPS means it needs to live, so the survivability of the pet is as important as it's dps potential. The mage class is all about the pet, we know this, the devs know this but other classes look at our pets with envy not realizing how much we rely upon it. Without it we are not second rate wizards, we are not second rate anything, we fall way behind. We need the pet and other classes saying anything about it just do not understand the mage/pet relationship. We do not stand in for a few hits at these levels, aggro means death to a mage quickly. we don' tank, the pet does. We burn a mob down with spells but ou burst dps is not wizard speed or strength we need the pet to live to burn it down, It must live and the dps strong enough on the pet that it's absence is telling and missed if solo, grouped or in a raid. The pet needs to be 'needed'.

It is the argument we need to push forward, and maintain through all of beta. Pet Pet Pet.... That is the cry of the mage. make the pet better.

Calebe

[Baramos]

Right. I agree about the Pet Placement. I almost changed the order but was too lazy.

[Baramos]

Oh, and I just read the rest of your post. Yeah, you and I are on the exact same page with respect to the pet. As usual. And survivability is a key. One thing that concerns me is the notion some people have that if our pets do more DPS, they need to tank worse. I keep hearing that from people that don't have a clue about our history, and that we have been down that road. A good Pet-Tank is a niche strength, has created a play style, and is implicit to the class. We need to fight for it.

Servants, too.

Some idiot Wizard was screaming on the forums that our Servants do too much damage, all the while posting his 160k crit in his signature. Wizards do extraordinary damage. Hey, that's their bag. That's fine. I'm not so concerned with DPS as I am with our continuing role in our Niche Strengths.

Niche Strengths? That is, outstanding pet tanking, and "respectable" relative DPS with respect to our amazingly powerful DPS brethren, the Necromancers and the Wizards. I don't mind coming in 3rd place to those guys as long as the current vision of the class remains consistent.

Back to the point, the key for pets is that they need to SCALE. This is where the slippery slope happens with spells (look at Earthen), abilities (look at Water Form), and Pets (look at years of attrition between PoP through GoD to the tune of decimating the Magician class).

Baramos

[Ninven]

I always had this idea that we could get 2 buffs that we cast on our pet. One buff takes our power (dps ability) and gives it to the pet, could be the form of higher enhanced minion, but the main idea is the pet will tank/dps better. The other one takes power away from our pet and gives it to us. makes our dps more powerful, while lowering the overall ability of the pet. Ofcourse if the pet dies whichever effect is on will fade. This promotes more versatility for the mage and also promotes the bond between the mage and his pet.

[qibrme]

I always had this idea that we could get 2 buffs that we cast on our pet. One buff takes our power (dps ability) and gives it to the pet, could be the form of higher enhanced minion, but the main idea is the pet will tank/dps better. The other one takes power away from our pet and gives it to us. makes our dps more powerful, while lowering the overall ability of the pet. Ofcourse if the pet dies whichever effect is on will fade. This promotes more versatility for the mage and also promotes the bond between the mage and his pet.

I like this idea.
Instead of SHARED HEALTH have 2 AA's for SHARED FURY or SHARED POWER THAT WOULD DO WHAT Ninven suggest.

Sued...

[Shardin]

They already tried to make some new mechanics in the UF spells which are next to worthless. Thaumatize pet sort of does what you are talking about as a dps/mana buff for the pet and then the one that heals the pet when you nuke is probably intended to increase his tankability/survivability. But like I said, these efforts are next to worthless and even if they did work they would just complicate things with additional buffs and spells to worry about.

RS and our pet hasn't really scaled much since SoF. I'd like to see a tuning of RS and our Pet's basic attributes without adding more complexity to the class.

If we get screwed with the expansion and keep falling behind like we did in UF, I'm probably going to quit.

[Tacoma2586]

will say that the Thua spell isnt that at all shar. its a mediocre timed mana regen buff only. marely gives enough to cast few more spells which i wouldnt consider enough dps to say that. or mana buff even.

[Calebe]

I don't think we need an AA to divert power form the mage to the pet or vice versa, both should stand on their own with aa's and spells to enhance them. Frenzied burnout and twin cast come to mind of 2 aa's that are burst dps that we can control. Things to enhance it would be the fix that twin cast works on the rs pets. Yes a coding change but one we need.

Other aa's to lower reuse of twincast and a new and improved frenzied burnout to up the dps. A better fire pet or an aa to make it crit on it's nukes.

The fire pet is a wizard and I know many would diagree but I think the fire pet should be hands down the best DPS we have, as we give up all tanking ability to use it. It is like a wet paper bag and no real survivability aid for a mage if they have aggro. The water should be 2nd best dps, air then earth. The water pet may not be a great tank but it is hands down far and wide better then the fire pet. So to my way of thinking and I know some disagree, if you use the fire pet you give up the melee pet and the tanking ability but gain a wizard pet that nukes hard and fast, it is a wizard it should be the best DPS pet there is. It also should like any caster be frail and if attacked not last long at all. It is a wizard, let it act as one and be the top dps.

Calebe

[pandax]

I always had this idea that we could get 2 buffs that we cast on our pet. One buff takes our power (dps ability) and gives it to the pet, could be the form of higher enhanced minion, but the main idea is the pet will tank/dps better. The other one takes power away from our pet and gives it to us. makes our dps more powerful, while lowering the overall ability of the pet. Ofcourse if the pet dies whichever effect is on will fade. This promotes more versatility for the mage and also promotes the bond between the mage and his pet.

How about a spell that buffs the pet so it does significantly more damage but gives you a simulations silence?

Say a 90 second duration with a 15 minute reuse. Allow it to give the pet "non-disced rogue" level dps.

This would help the mage's sustained dps while not overpowering the burst abilities.

The downside of course is that you would have no ability to heal your pet nor gate or anything of the sort.