86+ pets very underwhelming...

[Eandori Raintree]

I just dinged to 86 last night and spent some time in Tosk soloing with the new 86 air pet. My first reaction is that I'm very underwhelmed by their strength. As a mage that has played since 1999 I've been through it all and what this VERY much reminds me of is the increase we got from the level 49 pets to the 51 to 60 pets. The hit damage went up a bit, the tanking got better by a bit, mostly it was a pet level increase. Mages went from being a very powerful class to mana rod whores at 60-65.

It was completely obvious to me that no real increase to the pets tanking ability was there besides what comes with higher pet level. I've been soloing guards in Tosk long enough to get to Ally faction with Mitius so I'm pretty darn familiar with how that fight goes with just me, my 81 air pet, EM V focus, and my 36plat/15min merc. Going to the 86 air pet was REALLY not much better... I could see him tanking better, but only a little. I still have trouble keeping up with heals without my merc on those guards. I'm very willing to bet that any exp mob that is un-soloable for an 81 mage is still mostly un-soloable for a 90 mage with the same gear.

As for the melee, with my AA and EM V focus my last 81 air pet was hitting for like 440's max. The 86 Air pet is hitting for just over 500's max now. That really does not impress me as a very big increase to DPS either. I expected a LOT more, especially when considering how much harder the NPC's hit at levels above 80.

I will need to try out the other spells for some time, no comments on those yet.

I'm VERY WILLING to bet... that I would be gaining AA Exp faster if I de-leveled down to 81 and used that pet + level 76-81 damage spells rather then staying at 86. Being level 86 I lose a lot of zones/areas where I can gain decent exp per kill, yet my ability to kill NPC's has really not gone up by much.

[Danille]

Pet focus is underwhelming actually.

Get to MC and camp the named at the entrance to get your EMVIII focus. Big difference.
Or kill Professor Glumb in Library for the EMVII focus

[Eandori Raintree]

Although I'm sure a higher focus will help, that's missing the point.

The level 86 Air pet is focused by my current focus. So was my last pet. The new pet is barely an upgrade when comparing apples to apples. I was expecting a lot more.

[Danille]

I am not disagreeing with you. It is just that the game has evolved where pet focus plays a much larger role than in the days past. The content and events are tuned with pet focuses in mind so the strength of the base pet below a certain focus is just plain wimpy. That was done to address complaints from other classes about mages being able to pet tank mobs with an out of the box air pet just because they got to level 76, 81, 86, etc without having to upgrade their gear like a tank needs to.

[Eandori Raintree]

I could not say I agree with the Dev's on this one.

If all a mage did was pet tank, then I would agree. But the gear we gain in the new levels also effects our mana regen, HP regen, mana savings, spell damage, casting range, buff duration, total HP pool, total mana pool, etc. We STILL have a need for gear like a melee does.

We also have a need to obtain the new spells. Sure we can gain a small first step increase by buying vendor rank 1 spells, but getting rank II spells usually is pretty hard. I'm still getting rank II spells for SoD. I have never yet owned a single rank III spell in my characters entire life.

Not to mention that nearly always getting that new gear, and the new rank II+ spells always requires questing and faction.

It seems to me the Melee characters analogy of mages simply casting a new pet and being "at the level" completely lacks relevance to the other things we also must do to truely be "at the level."

What is the name of the mob at MC Entrance which drops EM VIII focus? Is it Guardian Ather? Because the stuff he drops requires level 90. Professor Glumb in the Library drops an earring with EM VI focus. But that's only 1 level higher then what I have now (EM V focus). All I see different there is Pet Power Increase (75) changes to Pet Power Increase (80).

Would that really be that big of a difference? Looking at the pet tables in another thread, seems like a no for the most part. Just a change to AC mostly, but not huge between EM V and EM VI.

Now, let's not forget...

What I was using as a measuring stick was trying to solo dark blue mobs in an expansion 2 times old when I'm easily WELL ABOVE what a top-end mage in that expansion had. I'm trying to kill those mobs without a merc and it's pretty tough. I need to chain heal my pet while squeaking out a Rumbling Servant after a healing crit. I usually need to blow a few AA to stay safe too.

- The average item from SoD had ~600 HP/Mana. Almost everything I'm wearing is at least 900 HP or more.
- EM V was a top end pet focus at that time and i have it.
- Almost all of my 1600 AA is spent on my pet.
- Every piece of my focus gear is well above average numbers.

And I'm having trouble soloing dark blue mobs in SoD, at level 86, without a Merc... I don't think that is where we should be.

[Danille]

for some reason EM8 really makes a great impact but MC takes group porogression/faction versus library is open to anyone.

[Eandori Raintree]

I love it that you are replying to my posts, I really appreciate it. Thank you.

But did you read what I just wrote?

[Danille]

Of course. Your speaking as a level 76 mage who took a break and is looking at the game the way it was and considering things are bad for you now. Disappointed because you got your level 76 air pet and expected more. We all hear that. I am basically trying to tell you that a 76 air pet is a joke right now with a EMV per focus. I think you just need to get a group and go kill the professor for the next level focus, then suck it up get to 90, get the next pet focus, and then look back on what you find out.

I'll add that if you like to molo and not group, you may want to spend some defensive pet aa's they make a big difference.

[svenalo]

We all agree with you, really, and pushed for pets out of the box (no focus) to be able to tank a blue con mob in HoT like we fought for an got in SoF. Amoung other things. We did not get what we wanted, in fact we didn't get most of what we wanted.

What it comes down to is we aren't the devs - they did what they did without a lot of consideration to what most of us were pushing for (you can find a lot of the reasons why that was in other threads). So it is what it is. That said, and EM8 focused HoT era Air Pet is a world of difference over EM5. The pet power number is just that, a number, and does not tell you everything...nor does the charts showing some base stats at that level...nor does the raw stats of the focus on say Lucy.

Also, the top end focus for SOD was EM8. And back then we had issues as well soloing dark blues without a cleric merc WITH that focus in some parts of the expansion unless we were doing something trivial like trains of mobs in FoS or the pigs in Tosk. SOF we got that big boost so the pet out of the box was a beast could tank blue con stuff...and the erosion started in SOD because of the backlash (and it's still going on even now). What gear you are personally wearing (except for the pet focus) doesn't affect how the pet is going to tank, and while the aa's do, the upper levels of those aa's are very marginal increases - they help but not a whole lot.

[Eandori Raintree]

Danille, click my magelo. I'm actually 86 not 76 and I'm speaking from experience being 86. I just haven't updated my signature for some time.

The EM8 focus that I find when searching appear to be for level 90 mages or raid mages. Life does not permit me to raid (time wise) and I was hoping to see a decent pet increase going to 86 which I didn't see and it's the reason for the thread. I would actually prefer NOT to slam into 90 ASAP, but to take my time and enjoy the process of leveling and pile up a lot of those AA's while many zones are still usable for me as an 86 mage that won't work well anymore as a 90 mage.

I have about 1600 AA's and nearly ALL of them are spent on the pet. Like I was mentioning in the start of this thread I have to activate many of those AA's to kill a guard in Tosk without a merc safely.

If you guys agree with what I'm saying, then the kind of response I would have preferred would be more along the lines of what Svenalo said. Summarized as "yeah we agree, we feel the same way, let's just make the best of it." Because that's a confirmation of what the reality is. But your reply is basically "suck it up, get this item, and that item, and level to 90" Your reply is a dismissal of other playstyles. Not everybody WANTS to follow the herd and slam into the top level 3 days after the expansion is out just so we can avoid a gap in our class power-balance. There are many different ways to play this game. Soloing (and now Moloing) are very valid methods and Soloing has been there since the launch of Everquest. It's one of the PRIMARY reasons that people enjoy playing mages.

So please, don't invalidate the favored play style of many of the people who play this class. I'm not attacking your play style, it's perfectly valid and fun. If I had time... I would do it. But as a mage with a lot more visibility then I have, I'm politely asking that you remember and represent the players like me. Right now, there IS a gap. That IS the reason for this thread.

Cheers,