Buffs/Burn: Raid

Anything relating to the magical arts (pets, spells, AAs).
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Fleiss
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Re: Buffs/Burn: Raid

Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:51 am

dorfillya wrote:
Cener wrote:In your original post you list the weave as RS-Salvo-Spear-Spear. There are a lot of times that I have an extra second before this refreshes. Should I use that time to use a clicky or maybe put a bolt/sands spell after this? I have implemented a lot of this and have improved my DPS a lot. In fact I tend to be in the top 3 on my guilds parse for most targets. Thank you for the write up.

Cener ThePunted
Any clickies you use should fit in the recast delay time in between regular spell casting. Adding a lower dps bolt or sand spell is actually worse for your total dps. Just letting that extra second go keeps you casting the higher dps spells faster when using the RS-salvo-spear-spear weave, resulting in what most find to be higher dps.

Probably 90% of the time this will be true with this weave. If you start using rains in there, there will be other gaps to tend to. Honestly a lot of it will deal with your connection speed and than random server lag. If you connection speed isnt good, you will not see many gaps and would be total waste to try and put in another spell. If you have a solid connection speed your gaps will be larger and you can probably sneak in another spell (by you judging there will be a larger than normal gap coming up) and it become worth while. If you are just mashing keybind, you won't want to add a fifth with that spell set up. If you are mashing keybind and looking for the large gaps, than you would manual cast in a fifth nuke. Now if you start working in rains it can really vary where your gaps will come up and if it is worth having a fifth (and your ping really comes into play). If you ping is high, definitely only do 4 nukes though in either case.
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Cener
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Re: Buffs/Burn: Raid

Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:23 pm

That makes since. And to be honest I hadn't thought of using clickies and such between spells until last night so my gaps may become much shorter. I'm going to test it out tonight and see what happens. I would also like to know what your thought are on using Rathe's Strength instead of Arcane Distillect. I do this so I can use my circle of mana 3 and because the Arcane is centered on me where Rathe is centered on my pet. I know the stats are not as good but the CoM3 helps me manage my mana much better and I don't have to be too close for Rathe to work.
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Thanasis
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Re: Buffs/Burn: Raid

Mon May 27, 2013 5:50 am

First off, great information in the posts.

Something that we perhaps could discuss is the pure burn versus sustained burn. Effects like IoG, fire core, imp twincast (combined with a 100% crit chance) greatly improve our nukes and make some nukes better than RS pet while these effects are running (for example a 100 full focus twincast spear doesnt come under 400k dmg with IoG/FC, obviously better than RS pet).

Parses I have run got me best results with rain>rain>many>spear>RS/spear (depends on RNG this one) and changing later to RS>rain>rain>of many when twincast faded. While these tests are not conclusive I just want to open discussion and see what other people are using and finding best.

For example full burn (very controlled and optimal raid situation) with rain>rain>spear>spear>rs (on dummy so couldnt do of many) and full buffed water pet with VT can reach:

Combat Dummy Caza on 24-5-2013 in 76sec

Total
--- DMG: 11963242 (100%) @ 157411 dps (157411 sdps)

Thanasis
--- DMG: 9868656 (82.49%) @ 133360 dps (129851 sdps)

Hodor (Thanasis)
--- DMG: 2094586 (17.51%) @ 28693 dps (27560 sdps)

Obviously a normal raid situation is far less optimal and usually yields results more in the 110-130k ball park but just trying to see what is possible. Another problem is that to get some nukes more potent than RS pet we are depending on other classes to do their support job.

Again, just sharing my experiences and very much open to suggestions/remarks.
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Piemastaj
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Re: Buffs/Burn: Raid

Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:46 pm

Going to be doing a fairly large update this weekend. Will be able to include parse data and things like that as well.
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Thanasis
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Re: Buffs/Burn: Raid

Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:18 am

Piemastaj wrote:Going to be doing a fairly large update this weekend. Will be able to include parse data and things like that as well.
Cool, looking forward to reading your stuff.

Currently i am topped at 160-180k range for 1 min burn and hoping to get to that 200k Enkel showed earlier.
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Piemastaj
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Re: Buffs/Burn: Raid

Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:17 am

So what was included in this update was a revamped Weave for our current setup and an additional method to Burst effectively.

The reason why Rains are more beneficial then a Spear is that they essentially do the same DPs (actually generally higher because they do not require as much rolling for the total DMG) for like 2/3s the mana cost. Yes you do need to be careful of adds and such, but the ceiling on them makes the occasional death worth it imho.

[Sun Jul 07 18:30:04 2013] Piemastaj hit Findlewill for 111473 points of non-melee damage.
[Sun Jul 07 18:30:04 2013] Piemastaj hit Findlewill for 120324 points of non-melee damage.
[Sun Jul 07 18:30:04 2013] Piemastaj hit Findlewill for 100109 points of non-melee damage.
[Sun Jul 07 18:30:04 2013] Piemastaj hit Findlewill for 107089 points of non-melee damage.


^is essentially what we are seeing per wave of a Rain. Fairly hard to track down every wave and where it hits, but that is generally what we see. Seeing somewhere around 600 to 700k DMG in a Twincast round while burning.

[Sun Jul 07 18:30:19 2013] Piemastaj hit Findlewill for 234726 points of non-melee damage.
[Sun Jul 07 18:30:19 2013] Piemastaj hit Findlewill for 225341 points of non-melee damage.

^Is what you can expect from a Spear Twincast. With Spear it relies on rolls from Sleeves and our Fire Core (rains do not get effected by either so it does not fluctuate nearly as much as Spear will). Basically b/t 400 and 500k DMG. Which is much lower then Rains.

Now for comparisons on the newest part of the guide (See: Burn section). Twincast plays unfairly because Gargs are not allowed to be Twincast which gives a huge advantage to Direct DMG spells vs pets. Using the Spear Data from above it shows Spear at 446k DMG. With Twincast and all the ADPS sexiness.

/GU Combat Dummy Izah in 39s, 310k @7956dps --- Piemastaj`s pet 306k @7836dps.

^Is one Garg pet with Bard Aura for ADPs. So a 126k DMG difference simply because of Twincast. Garg pets are also very consistent with their DMG out-put, but also require 40 seconds to ramp up that DMG. Now when IoG falls off, those Spear hits start falling into the 180-200k DMG range, which even without a Bard is under what a normal Garg pet will do.

Without Arcane Distillect: /GU Combat Dummy Izah in 38s, 262k @6897dps --- Piemastaj`s pet 253k @6834dps.

With Arcane: /GU Combat Dummy Izah in 39s, 301k @7728dps --- Piemastaj`s pet 278k @7520dps.

Basically explains/proves the point that I was making in the Burn portion that I added earlier. Did not want to clog up the guide with parses and such seeing as those will end up changing on an expansion basis depending on things we get and such.

If you are a die hard Garg lover on a burn all hope is not lost. You can achieve very nice numbers by using Garg pets instead of a Spear.

With Garg: /GU Findlewill in 47s, 8176k @173949dps --- Piemastaj 5350k @124426dps --- Piemastaj`s pet 1413k @33641dps --- Boss (Piemastaj) 1412k @30050dps.

Without Garg: /GU Findlewill in 52s, 9714k @186814dps --- Piemastaj 8260k @183559dps --- Boss (Piemastaj) 1454k @27965dps. This parse got messed up because I did not use my clicky pets and we had a pulling issue so it threw off burns.

For the first parse that is essentially what you will see our pets max out at (possibly a bit higher but not going to see a 10k DPS increase). Whereas the second parse had some issues and I was a baddy and did not use clicky pets and such and it was 10k higher.

There is some food for thought and a little better explanations for somethings that got added to the guide.
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Enkel
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Re: Buffs/Burn: Raid

Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:31 pm

Yep, if you want to break 200k, and hit 220k (yes, its possible), you can't use your RS pet on burn. If you have a good enough connection you can use a different weave, and every other rotation fit in a fifth spell, which yields nice dps results. Also, as most know, you need an enchanter to post these numbers, IoG was an awesome addition for us, and other classes.
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Thanasis
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Re: Buffs/Burn: Raid

Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:29 pm

Enkel wrote:Yep, if you want to break 200k, and hit 220k (yes, its possible), you can't use your RS pet on burn. If you have a good enough connection you can use a different weave, and every other rotation fit in a fifth spell, which yields nice dps results. Also, as most know, you need an enchanter to post these numbers, IoG was an awesome addition for us, and other classes.
Both posts confirm for me what I have been doing and parsed myself, good and thanks for confirmation. Personally being Euro based probably is the most limiting factor (300ms)
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Enkel
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Re: Buffs/Burn: Raid

Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:14 pm

I have a 40 ms, so don't know how much lag you have @ 300, but on burn I usually hit 205k-215k. 215k is, I would say, 1 in every 3 to 4 burns, though. Can hit higher numbers, but rare: /GU Lord Yelinak in 65s, 15105k @232384dps --- Enkel + pets 15105k @232384dps . To do this make sure to have enchanter + bard, prebuff your pet, make sure to unsuspend before burn (love my mgb), and hope for god like RNG. You will need to use a different weave then posted, and optimize your casts of Salvo. Make sure Rank 3 malo is on the mob (our shamans forget sometime), and get as much SD as possible. Never forget your click pets :P. It's rare, but I get these numbers from time to time.
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Voragath
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Re: Buffs/Burn: Raid

Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:33 pm

Enkel wrote:I have a 40 ms, so don't know how much lag you have @ 300,
Braggart :lol:
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