Raid DPS - How can we fix it?

[nahseev]

Yes there are still events that for one reason or another the guild thinks it's good to ban pets. Almost every single event with a death count mechanic pets are auto banned. Also rarely are exceptions between swarm pets and reg pets. No pets usually mean no pets. If you are using your pet at all having an increase linked to them (not from) shouldn't be a problem. I'm thinking also since there would be added risk not being available with pet dead or banned that the increase could be balanced to be a little stronger than just a nuke upgrade. This would give us a less reliable but possibly greater improvement given the right situation.

With the new necro dot check there are a whole new bunch of possibilities.

[Voragath]

Yes there are still events that for one reason or another the guild thinks it's good to ban pets. Almost every single event with a death count mechanic pets are auto banned. Also rarely are exceptions between swarm pets and reg pets. No pets usually mean no pets. If you are using your pet at all having an increase linked to them (not from) shouldn't be a problem. I'm thinking also since there would be added risk not being available with pet dead or banned that the increase could be balanced to be a little stronger than just a nuke upgrade. This would give us a less reliable but possibly greater improvement given the right situation.

You are forgetting that even if most guilds DID ban pets, that's an argument for more nuke changes. If you can't have a pet out, what's the point of beefing those? And what's a death count? Where each death powers up a mob? If so, your guild is completely retarded and just a few peeps using swarms would show them that pets don't count; not to mention, those events count PC deaths. However, with upper guilds pets are not a problem. Most of the raiding mages' problems lie in these upper guilds where the huge gap is seriously noticeable. Mid-tier guilds, like mine, don't see such a drastic gap if they even see one at all. Making a change that looks good to those not at the top usually does not help those at the top. There is just NO WAY a pet change in dps is gonna fix that gap unless you just make pets so seriously OP that the group game is utterly trivialized. Spells are the only avenue we have available because of that and the 3 reasons I stated in another thread. A glaring thing to note is that pet dps just doesn't ramp up, its slow to be attained and we need to be able to burst the damage.

With the new necro dot check there are a whole new bunch of possibilities.

The necro dot check is not new. The "raid boss" flag has been around since TSS according to the devs. All they did was make the raid boss mobs resistant to these spells, probably through another limiter on the dot. Alla is not up atm so I can't see if they did or not.

[dorfillya]

[quote="Voragath"].......There is just NO WAY a pet change in dps is gonna fix that gap unless you just make pets so seriously OP that the group game is utterly trivialized......./quote]

I guess I am not understanding why there could not be a huge increase in pet DPS that somehow was tied to the fact that he would have to be in a raid environment. Like, for example, maybe FBO could be a group spell, so several mages could coordinate their casting of FBO. Mages need more raid synergy. Raid mage DPS needs to be more than the sum of their individual DPS.

[Sillaen]

.......There is just NO WAY a pet change in dps is gonna fix that gap unless you just make pets so seriously OP that the group game is utterly trivialized.......

I guess I am not understanding why there could not be a huge increase in pet DPS that somehow was tied to the fact that he would have to be in a raid environment. Like, for example, maybe FBO could be a group spell, so several mages could coordinate their casting of FBO. Mages need more raid synergy. Raid mage DPS needs to be more than the sum of their individual DPS.

While I too hate the fact that our pet has degenerated into a minute % of our total DPS, I understand it's a difficult task to balance us through our pets and that's why the devs don't want to do it. Here are a few reasons.

1. You increase pet dps and our sustained dps increases as well. Something they don't want to do.
2. Pet dps is essentially free dps, and the devs don't want to give us free dps.
3. Whatever is done needs to affect only raids as the consensus is that group and solo mages are overpowered (not my sentiment at all)
4. Peeps don't wanna take the time to babysit pet as if pet dies, so does your dps.

So here's another solution I've been mulling around in my head.

An AA.

Fluffy's Devastating Burnout - Channels your energy with devastating results at a price of less efficiency.

It hits both caster and pet. The effect is that it triples pet dps, puts caster Spell Crit Chance at 100% and increases critical spell dmg 100%. The drawback is it also Increases Spell Mana Cost by 50% and lasts 90 secs. So your dps goes through the roof for 90 secs, but you are going to burn through your mana quickly so after a couple of mins your sustained is only pet + whatever mana you can regen.

All numbers above are adjustable. We would have to play with it to get the right fit.


Now here's the hard part and where people get all bent out of shape. Obviously that could be used in group and solo game as well, so there must be something in it that discourages it's use in that aspect of the game. The only thing I can think of is to give the pet a glass jaw at this point since anything that has to do with reduction of HPs get outright rejected here. So decrease pet AC by 1000 (adjustable as well) so anything that hits it will do full dmg. Or maybe devs can code for raid targets only, like they had spells tagged dragons only in the past then the AA would have to be targeted with a recourse on caster and pet.

There you go. Burst dps through both caster and pet that is not free. Feel free to chop it to pieces.

[svenalo]

.......There is just NO WAY a pet change in dps is gonna fix that gap unless you just make pets so seriously OP that the group game is utterly trivialized......./quote]

I guess I am not understanding why there could not be a huge increase in pet DPS that somehow was tied to the fact that he would have to be in a raid environment. Like, for example, maybe FBO could be a group spell, so several mages could coordinate their casting of FBO. Mages need more raid synergy. Raid mage DPS needs to be more than the sum of their individual DPS.

Given that many top end guilds really don't want more than one mage on a raid, and for those times in the others when there isn't more than one or two present, you really aren't solving a thing if you say the "fix" is to have synergy amoung the mage effects where things get stronger the more mages are present.

[dorfillya]

.......There is just NO WAY a pet change in dps is gonna fix that gap unless you just make pets so seriously OP that the group game is utterly trivialized......./quote]

I guess I am not understanding why there could not be a huge increase in pet DPS that somehow was tied to the fact that he would have to be in a raid environment. Like, for example, maybe FBO could be a group spell, so several mages could coordinate their casting of FBO. Mages need more raid synergy. Raid mage DPS needs to be more than the sum of their individual DPS.

Given that many top end guilds really don't want more than one mage on a raid, and for those times in the others when there isn't more than one or two present, you really aren't solving a thing if you say the "fix" is to have synergy amoung the mage effects where things get stronger the more mages are present.

Part of this type of fix would be that if mage DPS was where it should be, there would be no reason for guilds to limit mages to just 1 or 2. And, the synergy did not have to be only among mages, but could be between all casters. Melee DPS is very synergistic on raids, why can't casters?

[dorfillya]

.......While I too hate the fact that our pet has degenerated into a minute % of our total DPS, I understand it's a difficult task to balance us through our pets and that's why the devs don't want to do it. Here are a few reasons.

1. You increase pet dps and our sustained dps increases as well. Something they don't want to do.
2. Pet dps is essentially free dps, and the devs don't want to give us free dps.
3. Whatever is done needs to affect only raids as the consensus is that group and solo mages are overpowered (not my sentiment at all)
4. Peeps don't wanna take the time to babysit pet as if pet dies, so does your dps.......

If I have to "babysit" (see #4) my pet, then it is not "free" (see #2) DPS.

[Malleria]

Melee DPS is very synergistic on raids, why can't casters?

That's not a good thing you know. Melee are cursed by the fact they need X, Y, and Z support classes to push their full potential. Be thankful you aren't in that situation.

[dorfillya]

Melee DPS is very synergistic on raids, why can't casters?

That's not a good thing you know. Melee are cursed by the fact they need X, Y, and Z support classes to push their full potential. Be thankful you aren't in that situation.

Be thankful that I can't do 60K DPS?

[Malleria]

That's not an issue of synergism or not. Mages aren't doing 60k because the devs didn't want us doing 60k. There isn't some magic button the devs can push that will suddenly make other classes boost us more.

Asking to be reliant on other classes for our max dps doesn't mean we'll do more, it means we'll do the same when those classes are available and less when they're not. You're essentially asking for a nerf =/