81 Air pet compared to 86 Air pet

[Eandori Raintree]

Hey Mages,

Rather then digging through 21+ pages of discussions about class balance, expectations some had for this expansion, etc. What I would like this topic to be is SIMPLY posting data that compares the DPS and Tanking ability of the 81 Air pet to the 86 Air pet. Fact based information thread pls.

Cheers,

[Gnomeland]

Data collection thread? Okay, let's have all the parses in one place.

MellRince

Each pet fight against five level 90 TestDummies for 15 mins

All pets are fight without any buff.

All pets are maxxed all pet related AA up to UF

Conclusion is -- pet's DPS increased greatly while only a very small boost on tanking part.



max_hit/average_hit/DPS (Dummy's)average_hit/DPS

EM V 81 Air 610/380/487 391 / 266

EM V 86 Air 696/444/624 385 / 260

non-focus 86 Air 608/388/471 515 / 388(very low on mod2)

BodyCount

Ok, so far from a perfect test, but I wanted to get something not using test dummies up here. I went to Gyrospire Beza rooftop and tested an unfocused 81 pet and 86 pet. Both had only one buff (Reliance Rk II from my merc). Pet tanking AAs are:

Companion Agility 6 / 9
Sturdy Companion 8 / 9
Elemental Agility 3 / 3

Both pets had spellhold on, so no stuns were thrown. I used the same mob for both parses (used CoN to memblur between parses).

Level 81 pet (379 seconds*):
/g Tanking summary for: Kebeker --- Total damage: 322093 --- Avg hit: 718 --- Swings: 754 --- Defended: 221 (29.3%) --- Hit: 448 (59.4%) --- Missed: 85 (11.3%) --- Accuracy: 84.1% --- Dodged: 34 (6%) --- Parried: 37 (5.7%) --- Blocked: 110 (14.6%) --- Riposted: 40 (6.6%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%)

Level 86 pet (306 seconds):
/g Tanking summary for: Lenann --- Total damage: 222852 --- Avg hit: 669 --- Swings: 589 --- Defended: 174 (29.5%) --- Hit: 333 (56.5%) --- Missed: 82 (13.9%) --- Accuracy: 80.2% --- Dodged: 29 (6.5%) --- Parried: 28 (5.5%) --- Blocked: 80 (13.6%) --- Riposted: 37 (7.7%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%)

*For both fights I let the pet go until the mob was almost dead. For the first fight I had to truncate the first part of the fight out due to some merc repositioning and an add, so I chopped out the first 1/4 of that fight from the log so it was just uninterrupted fighting.

As you can see the percentages come out pretty much the same. These are some small differences, but considering the length of the fights these are probably within the margin of error. The average hit seems to be almost 50 points lower against the 86 pet. Again, this may fall in the margin of error, but I'm no statistician so not sure. Also this difference might be related to the difference in pet levels and their relative level to the mob. The mob was light blue to me at 89. My 81 pet was as well, while the 86 pet was dark blue.

My summary is that while the 86 pet seems to tank better in the short scenario above, the differences in the two parses can easily be explained by 1 - Margin of error and 2 - Difference in pet levels. They may well in fact have the same tanking stats.

Edit: I did originally try this on a mob in HoT, but unfocused and unbuffed I was unable to keep the 81 pet alive for any significant length of time. Even keeping the 86 pet alive was a challenge, though that was much more doable.

Others are welcome to comment on the data, as I haven't done a whole lot of parsing before this so am unsure what is/isn't statistically significant.

Voragath also did some parses but I'll let him post those.

[Eandori Raintree]

Great info Gnomeland!

Did you do any parsing with both pets w/ buffs up? (Burnout series, DS series, Iceflame series , and Burning Pyroshroud series) with each pet having it's level set of those spells on? Although the raw unbuffed comparison shows very valid data, I'm the most interested in the typical buffs setup since that's really going to be my typical usage model.

[Voragath]

Great info Gnomeland!

Did you do any parsing with both pets w/ buffs up? (Burnout series, DS series, Iceflame series , and Burning Pyroshroud series) with each pet having it's level set of those spells on? Although the raw unbuffed comparison shows very valid data, I'm the most interested in the typical buffs setup since that's really going to be my typical usage model.

If tests are done this way, then way, way more tests need to be run than has been done. No one has the time to run 100 10-minute parses of one pet, let alone 2. The reason is that the buffs just create too much variance so that any aberrations, lucky proc streaks et al, need to be eliminated. It's best to run a base then extrapolate outward to determine what the abilities will be unless you are testing the buffs themselves. If you are looking for a ballpark figure, then less tests can be run and you can get a very vague idea of what's going on.

[Eandori Raintree]

Agreed, buffs create variance. I even stated that the unbuffed comparison is totally valid.

Still though, MOST of the time MOST mages will have the buffs I mentioned on the pet. Which is why a test with those 4 basic buffs (and spells turned on) compared to another higher pet with those same genre of spells but the next ring up is a very valid test. I'm not asking for thousands of variables or iterations. What I'm asking for is what I see as the MOST TYPICAL usage model.

How many mages solo or group with a totally unbuffed pet? I 100% agree with you doing a test like that, I understand your base reason. I agree with it as well. But that does NOT dilute the validity of at least 1 test with very typical buffs.

[Voragath]

Agreed, buffs create variance. I even stated that the unbuffed comparison is totally valid.

Still though, MOST of the time MOST mages will have the buffs I mentioned on the pet. Which is why a test with those 4 basic buffs (and spells turned on) compared to another higher pet with those same genre of spells but the next ring up is a very valid test. I'm not asking for thousands of variables or iterations. What I'm asking for is what I see as the MOST TYPICAL usage model.

How many mages solo or group with a totally unbuffed pet? I 100% agree with you doing a test like that, I understand your base reason. I agree with it as well. But that does NOT dilute the validity of at least 1 test with very typical buffs.

Agreed. I just wanted it to be out there about what was going on because this problem came up before; I wanted to point at it from the beginning so others who aren't big into the parsing would understand.

[Voragath]

I pulled the data below from the eqplayers forum. I don't know how to make gamparse work in these forums other than a text output of the data (i.e. I don't know why the fancy boxes don't show up). These are two dps parses I ran a few weeks ago:

Just ran two parses. Not substantial but no way there could be that much fluctuation. Both pets were completely out of the box: no aa's, no buffs, no aura's, no weapons, no focus, no anything. I did /reset aa's, not even spent ONE. Summoned pet, sent him in. The 86 air pet def does better dps. I definitely remembered to remove my focus. Took my belt off and put it in the bag. Still there too lol

86 Air pet:
Test Ninety on 10/15/2010
Jebobtik -vs- Test Ninety: -- DMG: 186663 -- DPS: 311 -- Scaled: 311 -- Hit: 168860 -- DirDmg: 10444 -- Bash: 4625 -- Kick: 2734 -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 899 -- Hits: 562 -- Missed: 228 -- Defended: 109 -- Accuracy: 71.1% -- Avg Hit: 332 -- Max hit: 404 -- DMG to PC: 0

And 81 air pet:
Test Ninety on 10/15/2010
Lartik -vs- Test Ninety: -- DMG: 135467 -- DPS: 225 -- Scaled: 225 -- Hit: 118350 -- DirDmg: 11456 -- Bash: 2884 -- Kick: 2777 -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 874 -- Hits: 513 -- Missed: 247 -- Defended: 114 -- Accuracy: 67.5% -- Avg Hit: 264 -- Max hit: 358 -- DMG to PC: 0

[Merlaina]

And just so you know I'm BodyCount on the EQ forums. For some reason can't figure out how to change my name on there, though I never really gave it too much effort.

[Voragath]

And just so you know I'm BodyCount on the EQ forums. For some reason can't figure out how to change my name on there, though I never really gave it too much effort.

You have to PM the forum Mod in charge. Until recently, that was Kiara. I asked her to change mine during UF beta and she had it changed that day lol

I'm guessing you can PM Zatozia or Brasse and get the same result.

[Piemastaj]

Don't PM Zat, she never changed mine. I had to ask Kiara to do it.