Correct, that is what I meant. And the devs seemed to include in that even the latest focus effects...but as I said I don't think anyone actually tested that.dorfillya wrote:I think he means, that an unfocused 91 air pet is better than any focused 86 air pet. I am not sure of the answer, but, I kind of thought this was true also.
Question about VOA pet
Re: Question about VOA pet
Re: Question about VOA pet
I realize these are quite short, but I am merely showing you their DPS.
91 Air pet, no pet focus and no buffs/weps/auras.
/GU Combat Dummy Fana in 201s, 119k @591dps --- Boss (Piemastaj) 113k @561dps.
86 Air pet, EM13 no buffs/auras/weps.
/GU Combat Dummy Fana in 200s, 162k @808dps --- Boss (Piemastaj) 155k @777dps.
Like I said, unfocused pet is going to lose out against a focused pet.
91 Air pet, no pet focus and no buffs/weps/auras.
/GU Combat Dummy Fana in 201s, 119k @591dps --- Boss (Piemastaj) 113k @561dps.
86 Air pet, EM13 no buffs/auras/weps.
/GU Combat Dummy Fana in 200s, 162k @808dps --- Boss (Piemastaj) 155k @777dps.
Like I said, unfocused pet is going to lose out against a focused pet.
Re: Question about VOA pet
What PJ said.
I think what's being forgotten here is that your focus normally carries over. Pet for pet, the new basic pet will beat the old basic pet; however, a focused lower level pet can, and usually will, beat out a higher level unfocused pet (as PJ showed).
What people are getting confused on is the fact that some focii only go so high. What happens then is, the focus fails and you need to either go to the lower pet or switch to a higher focus for the highest level pet you have. The fact that a lower level focused pet can beat out a higher level unfocused pet is [some of] the rationale behind making focii have huge level spreads to create the kind of overlap that focii have.
It is also relative to what you are discussing as being "better". EX: the 91 air pet is going to stun better than the focused 86 air pet.
That isn't to say at one point a dev wasn't making the high level unfocused pet better than the focused lower level one; it's just saying that hasn't been the case for many years.
In beta, here is the info I got concerning air pet dps:
Both parses done on a level 90 dummy, no buffs, aa's, weapons, etc. Just the pets as they were.
HoT air pet: Avg dps 319, max hit 404, avg hit 329
VoA air pet: Avg dps 343, max hit 565, avg hit 408.
I think what's being forgotten here is that your focus normally carries over. Pet for pet, the new basic pet will beat the old basic pet; however, a focused lower level pet can, and usually will, beat out a higher level unfocused pet (as PJ showed).
What people are getting confused on is the fact that some focii only go so high. What happens then is, the focus fails and you need to either go to the lower pet or switch to a higher focus for the highest level pet you have. The fact that a lower level focused pet can beat out a higher level unfocused pet is [some of] the rationale behind making focii have huge level spreads to create the kind of overlap that focii have.
It is also relative to what you are discussing as being "better". EX: the 91 air pet is going to stun better than the focused 86 air pet.
That isn't to say at one point a dev wasn't making the high level unfocused pet better than the focused lower level one; it's just saying that hasn't been the case for many years.
In beta, here is the info I got concerning air pet dps:
Both parses done on a level 90 dummy, no buffs, aa's, weapons, etc. Just the pets as they were.
HoT air pet: Avg dps 319, max hit 404, avg hit 329
VoA air pet: Avg dps 343, max hit 565, avg hit 408.
- Goranothos
- Arch Mage
- Posts: 287
- Joined: Sun May 24, 2009 7:25 am
Re: Question about VOA pet
Good info Pie, but the OP was asking about using a 91 unfocused pet VS an 86 EM6 focused pet, not EM13.
But you did prove that last expansion pets with a high focus will outperform the latest expansion pets with no focus, so that is good.
But the OP, since he is already level 91, should be able to score at least an EM8 focus without difficulty, and then the question would be moot. OP, go get EM8 or better. No excuse for using an unfocused pet these days.
But you did prove that last expansion pets with a high focus will outperform the latest expansion pets with no focus, so that is good.
But the OP, since he is already level 91, should be able to score at least an EM8 focus without difficulty, and then the question would be moot. OP, go get EM8 or better. No excuse for using an unfocused pet these days.
Re: Question about VOA pet
I have never responded back to the OP in this thread. I responded back to Sven saying that his assumption was wrong. Then I proved where it was wrong.
The 'challenge' was seeing if any type of focused 86 Air pet will be more or less DPS then an unfocused 91 Air pet. It proved to be that a focused 86 Air pet did quite a bit more DPS then an unfocused 91 Air pet.
I do not possess an EM6 item, nor do I want to spend time farming it for an answer I can guess at and be about 95% sure on it. I would venture a guess that the 86 Air pet with EM6 will be more DPS then a 91 Air pet unfocused. I am pretty sure it would be a close call, but the 86 would win out. However, the 86 Air pet could only stun up to level 90, whereas the 91 Air pet could stun up to level 95.
The 'challenge' was seeing if any type of focused 86 Air pet will be more or less DPS then an unfocused 91 Air pet. It proved to be that a focused 86 Air pet did quite a bit more DPS then an unfocused 91 Air pet.
I do not possess an EM6 item, nor do I want to spend time farming it for an answer I can guess at and be about 95% sure on it. I would venture a guess that the 86 Air pet with EM6 will be more DPS then a 91 Air pet unfocused. I am pretty sure it would be a close call, but the 86 would win out. However, the 86 Air pet could only stun up to level 90, whereas the 91 Air pet could stun up to level 95.
- Goranothos
- Arch Mage
- Posts: 287
- Joined: Sun May 24, 2009 7:25 am
Re: Question about VOA pet
Well, that's good Pie, and thank you for providing us with that information. I do not believe any of us expect you to waste your time trying to find an EM6 item in order to provide additional numbers.
OP, the truth is that your 86 EM6 focused pet is probably just about equivalent to your 91 unfocused pet. We don't have the exact numbers, but really.....who cares? If I were you, I would get an EM8 or better focus, post haste.
OP, the truth is that your 86 EM6 focused pet is probably just about equivalent to your 91 unfocused pet. We don't have the exact numbers, but really.....who cares? If I were you, I would get an EM8 or better focus, post haste.
Re: Question about VOA pet
Actually its pretty easy to get that focus if you wanted to test with it, just goto the dude in the void and get the lower level focus from SoD and put it into an empty slot 3 (if you have one) ... it would only cost a few points to get and to test with for that focus level.
Savil
Savil
Re: Question about VOA pet
I really think Pie has done more than enough already heh.
Re: Question about VOA pet
Hi,
Thanks for all the supplied information on this, very useful information. Since my post, i have obtained my EM8 focus, so i have been using the 91 air pet. I even dinged 92, that opens up the water pet, and also raises another question. Should i use the 92 water insted of the 91 air? I guess that would depend on how i play i guess.
I box, im on euro time, so hard to find groups during my playtime. My box setup consists of a 92 war, 91 monk, 90 shaman, and my 92 mage+ J5 mercs. All chars are in full Hot T4. Sometimes my warrior goes down to damagespike/lazy merc, then im usually fine tanking with the monk, if he also goes down, the air pet does fine in VOA T2 where i am hunting now. The other day the pet ended up tanking a named after the warrior and monk died, from like 25% and till the mob died. The question is, how would a water pet handle the same situation? And, should i expect to heal more, if i change from air to water? i mean, i will just try it, but curious if someone has eny experinces with the 92 water pet.
Thanks in advance
Mrtiny
Thanks for all the supplied information on this, very useful information. Since my post, i have obtained my EM8 focus, so i have been using the 91 air pet. I even dinged 92, that opens up the water pet, and also raises another question. Should i use the 92 water insted of the 91 air? I guess that would depend on how i play i guess.
I box, im on euro time, so hard to find groups during my playtime. My box setup consists of a 92 war, 91 monk, 90 shaman, and my 92 mage+ J5 mercs. All chars are in full Hot T4. Sometimes my warrior goes down to damagespike/lazy merc, then im usually fine tanking with the monk, if he also goes down, the air pet does fine in VOA T2 where i am hunting now. The other day the pet ended up tanking a named after the warrior and monk died, from like 25% and till the mob died. The question is, how would a water pet handle the same situation? And, should i expect to heal more, if i change from air to water? i mean, i will just try it, but curious if someone has eny experinces with the 92 water pet.
Thanks in advance
Mrtiny
Re: Question about VOA pet
With correct healing water pets can tank "ok" but they are very susceptible to spike damage. IE they go along pretty well and then boom they are dead. It all depends on the mobs ATK as to how well water tanks.
Order of pets in tanking is easy:
Earth - takes hits well, has AC and mitigates damage well
Air - Avoidance based pet, can take a hit but tends to take more dmg per melee hit that lands than earth pet
Water - Doesn't avoid hits and doesn't take them well either. It can tank a few for a while but its tendency to both get hit and take high damge / melee hit that lands makes it a poor pet, plus opens the pet to death from spike damage from high ATK mobs
Fire - All of waters faults, only worse.
Savil
Order of pets in tanking is easy:
Earth - takes hits well, has AC and mitigates damage well
Air - Avoidance based pet, can take a hit but tends to take more dmg per melee hit that lands than earth pet
Water - Doesn't avoid hits and doesn't take them well either. It can tank a few for a while but its tendency to both get hit and take high damge / melee hit that lands makes it a poor pet, plus opens the pet to death from spike damage from high ATK mobs
Fire - All of waters faults, only worse.
Savil
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests