Raids, lockout timers and exploits

[Piemastaj]

I have to agree Karian. Triality should have just stayed on the down low for a bit until this smurf blew over and everyone was bitching about T7 raids again.

The bad part about what SOE did is now any guild who has this done to them can go back to this incident and say well Triality did the exact samething as us and they only served a 3 day suspension, why do we have to serve a 7 day suspension? What little credibility SOE had is now gone, and that just increased the likely hood of cheating probably by 50%.

I would agree that I am sure most of that stuff was lies or speculation on thier part, but idk some of it sounds like guilds have done it in the past. And if that is true, then Triality would have some right to be alittle pissed off that they were the only ones who got punished.

[Jedis]

I help out now and then on the Beta Server as a Senior Guide and, I'm not sure about lately, but Triality helped beta test raid encounters in the past. If I was on the SOE dev team, this would be a slap in the face for me.

Who knows how long this has been abused and not reported. I think they got what was coming to them. With them being one of the #1 guilds in the game and recognized as such, they should be made an example of -- I would have gone as far as item wipes on the characters in question that are in the instance logs as abusing the mechanism.

*shrug* That's all I have to say about it.

[Karian]

A lot of people have done a lot of things in the past its true, I don't know to what extent anybody but RoI has done.

We threatened people with a deguilding because they were in Rathe Council Chambers during off raid times(grouping for someone's sk twink I think). We never hid our tanks on Beast, we never bragged about beating Queen as a guild. (our first win was because of a bug and Absor kind of made it sound like it was going to happen to everybody at that % so we updated our main page w/o dick waving) We IM'd the developer of the Queen raid about the issue he said "grats, I'll look into it, enjoy your loot" We didn't go back for two weeks then while other guilds were working on it they beat it after a hotfix/patch was scheduled(Absor told us the fix was in) we went in, wiped a few times at varying percentages due to some bugs in the event and a few bad rounds here and there, and we fired it up for our last attempt of the evening and low and behold the initial bug that was supposed to be fixed went off again and we got a chest and a lockout, informed Absor again, got tells from certain members of other guilds asking "how we beat the raid", thus showing that they knew about the bug too. No big deal, no trash talk was doled out except that we saw numerous pathing bugs, and such within the event all feedbacked and pm'd to developers.

Now there's a huge issue with t7 raids being unbeatable, not because of tuning on all of them(they are overtuned, anyone who says otherwise is chest thumping, I stand by that and always will) but because of bugs and event mechanics that are broken. Stupid high damage per tic DoTs you can't avoid(spoilers zomg I knew it was still broken and I knew the damage would be upped) among other things, if you do get lucky enough to get to the last part of the events and come within a heartbeat of winning, you get screwed by other mechanics too, its pretty awesome. But basically here's what its going to take, its going to take RoI, Triality and CT beating these mobs and being honest about its tuning in place of progression, which won't happen at all because we all have our egos to protect. If they tuned these raids down a bit so that 20 guilds could do them NOW and let Brell's Temple be tuned to what the other two are currently tuned at you'd have a smoother progression line, but as is, there's likely going to be 5 guilds wiping in BT for the next month to two months waiting for others to catch up, and the cheating accusations will continue, and the other two raids will remain broken mechanically.

Sorry I ranted there, t7 raids are broken, t6 raids are too easy, and people's egos are prohibiting work from being done. What's going to happen is one guild is going to take credit for getting issues fixed because they'll play it up like a hero, again.

[xav8terx]

Well at least we know how they put themselves in position to be considered the best guild. It really makes no difference to me, but they should really stop trying to pretend they are #1 when this is how they got there...sort of like all the juicers going to the hall of fame. Sure you made it in but so can everyone else using your method so it sorta of takes the respect out.

[Goranothos]

Sort of like all the juicers going to the hall of fame. Sure you made it in but so can everyone else using your method so it sorta of takes the respect out.

I call BS on this analogy. To get into any sports Hall of Fame, or win any national or international level bodybuilding competition, you have to put in a smurfton of hard, ballbusting, blood-sweat-and tears WORK. Being a "juicer" is not a magic pill to big muscles and athletic prowess. This is a common misconception of couch potatoes.

In the same manner (and back on topic) I wager Triality did not get where they are now without lots of hard WORK, not relying on "sploits". That's all I have to say on the subject.

[Danille]

One thing that SOE did do right in this episode is clearly define what cheating and exploiting is when it comes to bypassing lockout timers. I went back and changed that portion of their statement to blue font. At least moving forward no one can say it has not been defined as exploiting or cheating.

[Calebe]

Triality acted like children. You banned us but other do the same thing. it is not fair, they do it so we do also. Yes we know it is against the rules (stated on their web page for all to read. They knew it was against the rules). So they throw a fit. Yes we broke the rules but don't you dare make an example of us unless you do others as well.

The thing is SoE has made examples of others in the past. A guild on the old E'CI server was forced to disband, they reformed and were disbanded again and all transferred off to other servers eventually. So for Triality to say they are being picked on, maybe this time but not always and in the past other guilds had way worse done to them.

So the ban was warranted, and they paid the price. If they were adults they should say smurf we got caught. I know other do it but so did we and we were unlucky enough to be caught and made an example of. Trust us it won't happen again, good lesson learned. They would have come out on top with an adult attitude but as usual they played the childish rant game and I have no sympathy at all. They go into detail how others exploited other raids. So report it, but does their exploiting mean it is ok for you to also?

People who break the rules have to expect at some point they will get caught and could be punished, at times to be made an example of and others because well you were caught and the other person wasn't. It changes NOTHING. you broke the rules knowingly. Stop crying like children, and stop using the childish tactic of well he did it to it is not fair.

Grow the hell up. You got caught, and regardless if others do it also, you did and knowingly broke the rules. can you honestly say you should be allowed to flaunt the rules and only others made examples of and never your guild?

Calebe

[Falino-Luclin]

I'm not exactly up to date of the happenings of high-end raid guilds, but I read the rant they posted on their web site, and I have to say, that was one of the stupidest things I've ever read in my time in EQ. Doing something you know is against the rules, then complaining when you get nailed for it, sorry, no sympathy here.

I don't see how they can make a comparison between this and people doing group missions then dropping before the lockout to add alts. Sounds like they're just angry they got in trouble and want to whine about it.

[qibrme]

Doing something you know is wrong is one thing.
I don't even mind the rant if you think SoE did you wrong.

But where I come from, there is nothing worst than being a RAT.

Cops bust you for robbing a bank, so you start squealing and name names of all the other bank robbers in town, saying you can't put me in jail because Johnny and Mike and Sally are all bank robbers too and you have not arrested them.

Naming other guilds and what they might have done is plain wrong IMO.
Let the cops do their job or not.
If you want to be a cop then live a virtuous life so that you can throw stones, but don't try to bring down the ship cause you got caught and decide to take an "if I go down, we all go down" attitude.

There needs to be honor among theives.

Take your medicine and be happy about playing the game.

Sued..

[Mmats]

I was in that IRC session they had and still have the logs. Dalnoth only posted the QA bit but there were people in there for hours before that portion started, and there were quite a few noteable/funny things that happened. Both Phil and Brd had funny runs while they were in there until banned, but I digress.

What was stunning yet shouldnt have been for anyone thats dealt with paranoid delusionals before, was what they (Triality) accepted as evidence of others hacking/exploiting. In the IRC it was said CT was in some zone for 3hrs straight and they went on and on about how that was clear evidence of CT using the same lockout exploits. Also mentioned was how some unnamed person TOLD someone in Triality that ROI had exploited such and such raid. I can only wonder...what if people like these were to have to serve jury duty and decide someones fate...

I had personally never believed any of the cheating/exploiting accusations that the high end guilds threw at each other. But since this whole debacle, the only ones with any PROOF of them exploiting is Triality. First they admitted to a couple examples on their webpage, and then they were later suspended by the devs for the unrelated lockout exploits. I know many of the groupers think all of the high end guilds exploit and such but personally I doubt that any do it with leadership approval like Triality seems to. And I have no problem with seeing how so many of these people all end up in one guild, because like minded people have a tendency to find each other. Its easy to visualize some random hacker weighing the option of which guild he wants to app for, MS (with the crazed do-gooder Ronak) or Triality (the self acclaimed outlaws).