okay

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benhan
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Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 3:09 pm

okay

Post by benhan »

okay i told you guys this and u guys refused to agree in mage channel we either need pet dps or spell.. alot chose spells so we are asking for spells we will still be getting pet upgrades but we will focus on spells more. now we are the laughing stock of eq cause of this crap. if we dont get our smurf straight mage class is dead we already lost HUGE dev support and really good mages etc. if we dont stop this bickering now alot more will leave.

(mods)--- i ask mods plz delete any post reply to this if its dumb like pet dot or name calling or anything.

this is where u post your ideas what u want give a description or idea idc if its pet related spell or utility but post it. me and 3 other mages have sent pm to the dev on a REAL good chance at getting really nice stuff trust me i've been a mage for 6 years love the class im not going to F it over. yes i like soloing etc but i realize we need raid dps bad.


p.s - no mention of rage pet and TC (dont give a smurf will ask if they get shot down ill ask for another way to do tc and rage pet theres already a way in game and npcs use it)

---DO NOT--- invite a dev for this dont let him see this u know how bad that thread looked with eid looking at us about arguing etc. makes us look dumb. so come on be smart about it.

so plz give ideas or wants in spells-utility-pets

ps ill post more when time i have about 3 pages of real good stuff even some stuff from tornt and arlian i found.
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dorfillya
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Re: okay

Post by dorfillya »

1. a magic based "clash of many" type spell, with different recast from the current clash of many, that could be used in our current weave, (I always thought that our 2 current beam spells were really a mistake, and we should have gotten 2 clash of many spells from the beginning), another clash of many type spell is really only efficient in a raid environment and would do little to change the group game, which I think seems to be an important factor to many

2. reduce cast time on spear and bolt since these (and clash) are the backbone of nearly all mage casting, and quit making improvments to the other 8 nukes mages have yet never use

3. increase damage on spear, bolt and clash, especially the last 2-3 waves of clash

4. earth and air pet is generally considered group pets, while water and fire pet is generally considered raid pets, so increase the amount of mana returned from symbiosis if a raid pet is up when it is cast, in other words, water and fire pet would give a different recourse effect than earth or air, so that mages in raid mode could have more mana regen

5. increase offensive abilities of FBO, and have FBO also affect swarm pets

6. decrease mana of servant pet, increase time servant pet lives

7. have arcane distillect aura on the pet, not on the mage, or else increase its range greatly, raids generally want casters back away from the mob making distillect nearly useless in raid environments

8. make a type 3 augment for spear
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Calebe
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Re: okay

Post by Calebe »

1: reduced cast time on spear/bolt/fickle
2: Reduce recast timers on spear/bolt so those 2 can be chained.
3: Up the damage on all spells.
4: An AA to make forced rejuvenation work for a set interval so can chain spear non stop.
5: A magic based bolt with as high of damage as spear and a different timer can can chain it spear.

Burst DPS is a must. It is lacking. No clickie nuke will do it, no upgrade to FBO will give us a 20k DPS boost we need in a burn situation. Thinking it will will get shot down fast. No other class will allow a pet to do 20k DPS for any amount of time. If it does we will shouted down and spell dps will be lost and pets will be demonized. Hell they are already.

The thing to remember to those saying I am a mage not a wizard, need to realize the burst DPS we are asking for, wizards are as well. No mage expects to reach the burst DPS of a wizard, and we shouldn't. So anyone saying I don't want to be a wizard relax, your not. You won't do their burst DPS, you will be able to out sustain them on DPS on a long fight as it should be. A skilled player will out burst a wizard over a wizard not trying or as skilled. This will always be the case, and a skilled wizard will and should be top on the DPS charts, it is basically all they really do and should be the best at it for burst DPS. Over time a mage will catch and pass them, as their mana wanes and our pet is still providing the extra DPS. Mages should be smurf respectable and be the 2nd best DPS class at burst, and over a longer time while a mage will beat a wizard, no one should ever touch a necro as it is their domain.

So again, mages need burst dps, it must be spell based or pets will be yelled at, demonized and asked to be nurfed by other classes as they always are.

Pets need a dps boost, 20% would be good but that is nowhere near the burst DPS we need to be wanted on a raid. Spell based, and not 20 clicks of ice shard or a bigger molten orb unless they do 15,000 per click and they won't, and we need the damage to be focused as well. I have heard of those suggestions and they won't give us the boost we need. Classes doing 55k-65k in burst mod and a mage at 30k? No click no pet boost is going to make that up. A mana free click for the difference won't fly not for the damage increase we need.

Calebe
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svenalo
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Re: okay

Post by svenalo »

All we need for burst DPS is an AA with a longish refresh (time set to the average time it takes to get from one raid boss to the next in Convo say, or SS) that gives us a 3 or 4 times modifier on our base damage on any spell we cast. Simple, quick, and things like it already exist so should be easily doable. Could even make it come in 3 or 4 ranks, each succeeding rank adding more (rank one doubles, two triples, three quads, etc).

Aside from that, we have multiple threads going back to before HoT even came out with all the ideas in them...all we see each new thread is a rehash of those with nothing really new (usually). So instead of reinventing the wheel, pull out the master list from the old HoT thread and use it as a starting point so we don't waste time. We need stuff now - not weeks from now after we've hashed through the ideas yet again. That doesn't mean some new ideas if they do occur can't be tossed in, but I venture to guess upwards of 99% of everything has been already said multiple times in multiple threads.
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Sillaen
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Re: okay

Post by Sillaen »

My only question is: Are we caring how our ideas will affect the group/solo game or not? I know some people get twitchy when people suggest things that might in the opinion of others overpower the group/solo arena.

If we're not caring about how it will affect the group/solo arena, then any and all of the above mentioned will work just fine.
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Calebe
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Re: okay

Post by Calebe »

We should not care on iota how it effects the group game. Wizards and Necro's the other 2 casting DPS classes don't give a smurf if what they ask for effects the group game and neither should we. The difference of a wizard that raids and groups besides focus items is rank 3 spells. How is that any different then a mage that raids and doesn't raid? Humm rank 3 spells and focus items. So stop with the how will this effect the person who groups.

It will benefit them, they lack in burst DPS, that a grouping wizard does not lack in. Anything more given to a raiding wizard for burst and they are asking for it will help the non raiding wizard. It should for them. It should for us. Stop asking. It doesn't help us at all, but drives a wedge into the class of the appearance of raiders want to be elite, and exclude the grouping mage. It says to hell with the grouping mage. It leads to well as I group I want more pet power and I don't care if I ask for it, as they don't care about groupers. It needs to stop. Upgrades for one help the other. End of story and we need to keep it that way.

So please I ask all of us to stop saying how it effects the group game or the raiding game if the suggestion will help everyone. The only time to question is if it will have a negative impact on either raiding or grouping. at that point then it is open for discussion. Otherwise it has no place, we are one class. we want to improve the class. How we do it is open for discussion, not how it over powers the other. Honestly at times we worry about the wrong thing that no other class even gives a thought to.

Calebe
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Voragath
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Re: okay

Post by Voragath »

Calebe wrote:
So please I ask all of us to stop saying how it effects the group game or the raiding game if the suggestion will help everyone. The only time to question is if it will have a negative impact on either raiding or grouping. at that point then it is open for discussion. Otherwise it has no place, we are one class. we want to improve the class. How we do it is open for discussion, not how it over powers the other. Honestly at times we worry about the wrong thing that no other class even gives a thought to.

Calebe
Well put.
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Failcon
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Re: okay

Post by Failcon »

Calebe wrote:We should not care on iota how it effects the group game. Wizards and Necro's the other 2 casting DPS classes don't give a smurf if what they ask for effects the group game and neither should we. The difference of a wizard that raids and groups besides focus items is rank 3 spells. How is that any different then a mage that raids and doesn't raid? Humm rank 3 spells and focus items. So stop with the how will this effect the person who groups.

Calebe
I am sorry but this is a invalid statement. We are vastly different from wizards. So me a wizard who can sustain tank any group named mob. We are one of the only classes that can burst DPS, tank, and heal; only beastlords and to a much lesser degree shadowknights can boast these claims. We do just nicely fit into the DPS catagory because we are so much more. When empowering our class, there needs to be just as much focus on how the balance plays out over all the areas. The needs of each style of play have to be understood and accounted for. The call for things like a super pet will improve all styles differently, the raid mage will see a moderate dps boost, the group mage will have a much higher boost- a higher % in dps and allowing a better off tank or group tank, and the solo mage will jump greatly in ability- dealing much higher dps and a much stronger tank.

The reason we worry about this type of effect is simple, we HAVE HAD the super pet. It got us nerfed for years. The super pet helps the solo and group players the most, still leaving the raid players in need, while pissing off the rest of the EQ community. This is very important to think about, some of the strongest old world toons became the most nerfed. They have made it abundantly clear over and over that mages in the solo/group game are strong enough, some still say too strong, so to push for boosts that help those areas is counter productive over the long haul.

I am a raid mage, who due to my old guild not making it through Convortium as current content, had to switch over to T4 HoT group gear. I was using RK2 spells group gear and an EM8 ear. I could handle any group content, even solo. I am far from one of the best mages. So the group and solo mages should not be feeling left out. They can acheive any level of group content they desire and work to acheive. Where as raid mages are finding it hard to keep our class desireable in the content we are trying to acheive. It is the raid area that mages are suffuring and that alone that needs to be fixed. Any mage can use the abilities of a raid mage so long as they are resourceful and collect the right gear.

The "of Many" line is one of the best ways a mage can increase burst DPS in a raid senario. It is based purely on something that can be easily accessed in large numbers. While any one pet class might not be in mass desired, most guilds still have them. Working with your guildies can produce pets in large numbers and kept for a decent duration. I my last guild and in works in my new one, we made sure to rotate servant/host, and with the other classes tossing out what they have durring burns we would easily beat the 20 pet requirement. Toss in "cloth cap" and/or "dog whistle" and you can fill in extra pets. If you are in a guild that works to maximize each others potential, it is easy for the "of Many" script line to be used to increase other areas.

If the "of Many" scripting was used for an AA that had a few levels in it, opening at a bonus to dmg, then the next rank a bonus to crit, and a rank being a bonus to pet dmg. There could also be a boost to the current "of Many" line, an AA that increases the the number of bolts of the "of Many" line that is affected by TC like a normal spell to be boosted also. The "of Many" script is the single best way to improve the raid game. (And to those who feel it is not fair, get max AA pets and clickie pets, then you can get a raid syle boost to DPS).
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