new stuff

[Tweelis]

Here's a question for Elidroth

If the roles were reversed and you were a player that was way behind the dps curve at the high end raiding game how would you as a player ask to change the dps situation in order to be competitive? If Savil or Piemastaj or Sillaen were the dev in charge of fixing your dps issues what would you say to them in order to be competitive?

Would you want a pet dps increase?
Would you want a spell dps increase?
Would you want a combination of pet and spell dps increase?
Would you ask for a dps nerf to all other classes?
Would you ask for a combination of the above?
Would you come up with something else I haven't thought of?
How would you handle this if the roles were reversed?

[Savil]

Plain and simple nothing DPS-wise is going to get done mid-expansion (atleast not anything huge).
Trust me, we do need it now, but it is just not possible.

Since Elidroth has been kind enough to post on our boards I would like to put the question to him.

Elidroth if you don't mind settling this question, is Piemastaj correct is his statement about nothing happening prior to the next expansion release?


Sued...

If you read what hes said in his last few posts... I'm beginning to wonder if we will get a dps increase NEXT EXP ... much less in the middle of this one.

Savil

[Calebe]

Tweelis you left off one important question for Eldiroth.

If you played a mage would you want to be so far behind in DPS till the next expansion and know your not helping your guild as you should becuase of a lack of DPS?

That is the only true question. Keeping mages behind for over 6 months is not good for the moral of any class when the devs say they know there is an issue. 6 months just to long to wait.

Please help us now.

Calebe

[qibrme]

Plain and simple nothing DPS-wise is going to get done mid-expansion (atleast not anything huge).
Trust me, we do need it now, but it is just not possible.

Since Elidroth has been kind enough to post on our boards I would like to put the question to him.

Elidroth if you don't mind settling this question, is Piemastaj correct is his statement about nothing happening prior to the next expansion release?


Sued...

If you read what hes said in his last few posts... I'm beginning to wonder if we will get a dps increase NEXT EXP ... much less in the middle of this one.

Savil

Please be nice Savil.
Elidroth taking the time to read our boards and post here is a big deal.
I for one appreciate his input as it provides the best input we magicians have had in a LONG time from the people who actually design the game we all play.
I think he deserves our respect and civil treatment for his efforts.'
Hopefully this is the start of a dialogue by which we can advance in a more orderly fashion in future expansions due to the direct feedback access post from DEV's like Elidroth can provide.

Sued...

[Piemastaj]

Just a fyi it is really hard to be nice when you essentially got told everyother class is broken in a good way for DPS, but yours is currently balanced so deal with it.

[Malleria]

Hang me if ya like, but realistically this needs to happen in the next beta. Not mid expansion. For the kind of boost we need there needs to be a lot of testing, input, changes and bug fixes. Too much to do mid expansion. With the beta looming they simply don't have time to devote to bug fixing. And going into beta with a broken fix is just going to create even more problems.

[Elidroth]

If you read what hes said in his last few posts... I'm beginning to wonder if we will get a dps increase NEXT EXP ... much less in the middle of this one.

Savil

Savil,

To be blunt, you have a serious lack of reading comprehension, and a worse case of fabricating things that I don't say. Please show me EXACTLY where I stated that Mages are 'at the bottom of the list'. Please show me EXACTLY where I stated that Mages aren't getting any dps increases, now or in the future. Your penchant for hyperbole and hysteria isn't doing your class any favors when it comes to getting people to help you.

To the rest of you who've managed to remain sane in this conversation...

Mages need some love. No argument from either myself or Aristo. How that happens is definitely a subject for discussion. When that happens is also. I'd personally like to see that happen sooner than later.

Lastly, don't paraphrase what I say. Don't put your own spin on things and try to put words into my mouth. If you have issue with something I ACTUALLY WRITE, call me on it. But if you read what you WANT to read, instead of what I actually write, and try to come at me with it, your words will fall on deaf ears. There is simply no way I can even try to reason with you about things I don't actually say.

[Elidroth]

Just a fyi it is really hard to be nice when you essentially got told everyother class is broken in a good way for DPS, but yours is currently balanced so deal with it.

Again, that's not what I said at all. That's what you apparently WANTED to read. What I said was, another class being broken is not justification for you being broken as well.

Seriously, if you're not going to discuss things I actually say, then there's nothing more to talk about, and we're done here. The choice is yours.

[Savil]

To be blunt, you have a serious lack of reading comprehension, and a worse case of fabricating things that I don't say. Please show me EXACTLY where I stated that Mages are 'at the bottom of the list'. Please show me EXACTLY where I stated that Mages aren't getting any dps increases, now or in the future. Your penchant for hyperbole and hysteria isn't doing your class any favors when it comes to getting people to help you.

To the rest of you who've managed to remain sane in this conversation...

Mages need some love. No argument from either myself or Aristo. How that happens is definitely a subject for discussion. When that happens is also. I'd personally like to see that happen sooner than later.

Lastly, don't paraphrase what I say. Don't put your own spin on things and try to put words into my mouth. If you have issue with something I ACTUALLY WRITE, call me on it. But if you read what you WANT to read, instead of what I actually write, and try to come at me with it, your words will fall on deaf ears. There is simply no way I can even try to reason with you about things I don't actually say.

Thank you for being blunt, I will be as well. Here are some facts that come directly from your own posts. I am not the only mage to see your words in the same way. Do Not Try to act as if its just me out here not understanding what your saying.

* First you said "yes, mages need to be upgraded to do more DPS and that upgrade shouldn't be tied to their pets." We agreed with this and this was one of the best bits of news I and many other raiding mages had heard in a long time.

* Next you are "upset" that all mages aren't agreeing over how we should get that DPS, via pets or spells. I had hoped we had this issue solved as well but we didn't it seems. For that much you have my apologies.

* Next you say that our DPS should be tied to both spells and pets. This was a direct change from your first statement. Which is it elidroth ? Do you deny you made this change in thinking? One thing I want you to understand is if you honestly changed your mind, just tell us, a big block of the raiding mages would be upset, but could respect you for being honest us with. Above you basically just say I'm lying, but here you clearly have changed directions in less than 2 weeks. This is part of what I was pointing out.

* Next you point how how other classes could be broken and ours isn't. Now you MIGHT NOT have intended for this to mean you considered mages balanced and other classes broken. But I'm not the only mage here that read that just that way. Again, you accuse me of "putting words in your mouth" and "hyperbole and hysteria". Show me where *I* said you even said "mages were at the bottom of the list". My comment purely said I was wondering if we would get an upgrade at all based on your last statement about rangers. A statement that applies just as equally to other major DPS classes in EQ that are currently beating mages so badly. An upgrade that puts us in the same % of DPS isn't an upgrade. Its called more of the same.

* Some mages have spent HOURS and HOURS of personal time getting parse data to send in to you guys proving just how badly were being out DPS'ed. You had this same data in the last EXP as well. Raiding mages knew that we were being badly out DPS'ed in UF, we did everything we could to get changes in HoT beta. Its a shame the feedback was ignored. Which it so clearly was, as we parse dead last among all DPS classes now.

* "If you have issue with something I ACTUALLY WRITE, call me on it."
I have called you on things you've said many times and you very rarely directly answer me. When you do answer its usually nit picking on something else I've said while avoiding the direct question. I could repeat an entire list of questions I've directly asked you from EQ Live and from this very thread that you've avoided but it wouldn't do any good. I'm not the only mage that has asked you direct questions in this very thread that you still haven't answered as well. Why bother calling you on things you say when you will ignore the question?

* mages are *currently* 10-20k DPS off from all other DPS, this has been parsed to death and sent in by a number of people. How we even got to this point is beyond me. Its pretty much inexcusable in my eyes when raid mages all over the place were yelling about this during UF, and during HoT beta. I don't expect you to fix this mid exp, but it would be nice to have some idea of your thinking about how it will be fixed for the next go around. If you give us 10k next exp and melee have the same *insane* weaps, and *insane* AA's that make them gods for 2 minutes were still going to be the same amount behind. I would think this would be common sense but this is the very same issue we had going from UF to HoT. All that actually happened for raiding mages was more of the same.

What we / I have asked of you is consistency, you've changed directions 2-3 times on the topic already in the last 2 weeks. I'm not alone in this view point. Many of the best raid mages in EQ feel the same way about this.

One last thing, when you said:
"That Rangers can't burst to 65k for a short fight doesn't mean YOU need to be brought up to that level. More likely it means something is out of whack with Rangers and they need to be reined in a bit."
you realise that your 1/2 of the reason it is unbalanced right? In fact most of the current classes "balance" issues are due to the AA's they were given. Currently all classes but mages have some of these "unbalanced" AA's that let them do so much DPS. Are you basically saying you made a mistake like you did with the pallie AA, and if so, what do you plan to do about it (asked for a 2nd time now).

"To be blunt, you have a serious lack of reading comprehension, and a worse case of fabricating things that I don't say."

I read and understand just fine sir. I understand double speak, backpedaling, and avoidance of the issue every time I see it. I am one mage, I speak for myself elidroth, you speak for your company. I am far from the only *customer* of SoE that feels you have done this. Why don't you try answering questions and giving us actual answers for a change. Many mages are far more interested in enjoying the game than arguing with you.

Savil

Sorry pie, another book.


Savil

[Savil]

Please be nice Savil.
Elidroth taking the time to read our boards and post here is a big deal.
I for one appreciate his input as it provides the best input we magicians have had in a LONG time from the people who actually design the game we all play.
I think he deserves our respect and civil treatment for his efforts.'
Hopefully this is the start of a dialogue by which we can advance in a more orderly fashion in future expansions due to the direct feedback access post from DEV's like Elidroth can provide.

Sued...

I was happy he posted here as well until he his last 2-3 posts. I am more worried about raid mage dps now than I was before he posted!

Savil