Raid DPS - How can we fix it?

[svenalo]

Also to imply that the topic hasn't been discussed is crazy. This topic has been discussed into the ground over multiple threads for literally months.

[qibrme]

Also to imply that the topic hasn't been discussed is crazy. This topic has been discussed into the ground over multiple threads for literally months.

HA! Make that YEARS!!!

Sued...

[dorfillya]

Most people think mages are OK solo/group wise, it is raid mages that need real help, so changes must be somehow tied to a raid invironment. The big melee DPS (rangers/berserkers/etc) seems to come from the synergism of their discs/spells/AAs/auras. Their group dps is much more than the sum of their individual dps. We need similar abilities that give large increases to our dps in a raid environment that dont necessarily transfer over to group/solo. My raid dps is not much more than my group dps. Clash of Many was a good start towards this concept, but does not go nearly far enough to give mages what they need. Maybe a nuke that increases according to number of people in the raid? Or according to the number of people on the aggro list of the mob? Make FBO, fire core, first spire or some other yet unnamed AA/spell that gives group benefits instead of only individual benefits.

[Danille]

Most people think mages are OK solo/group wise, it is raid mages that need real help, so changes must be somehow tied to a raid invironment. The big melee DPS (rangers/berserkers/etc) seems to come from the synergism of their discs/spells/AAs/auras. Their group dps is much more than the sum of their individual dps. We need similar abilities that give large increases to our dps in a raid environment that dont necessarily transfer over to group/solo. My raid dps is not much more than my group dps. Clash of Many was a good start towards this concept, but does not go nearly far enough to give mages what they need. Maybe a nuke that increases according to number of people in the raid? Or according to the number of people on the aggro list of the mob? Make FBO, fire core, first spire or some other yet unnamed AA/spell that gives group benefits instead of only individual benefits.

Ditto!

[Malleria]

Don't start asking for ADPS. Please? It'll take us from bad to worse.

[nahseev]

That said, as a mag I can't ignore my pet and would want any new future ability or spells that address this issue to be linked to (not from) our pet. Just giving us bigger nukes or quicker casts blurs our identity.

Tuli, that you? If not, you sound like a Tuli parrot. Logically show the community how this is true. I can show you how it isn't: druids having insta-cast, group heal, pr's, and huge heals does not make them clerics. Being able to mez a group of mobs has not turned bards into chanters. Having a pet and dots has not turned shamans into necros. Your turn.

What defines you as a magician. If you have no qualms about blurring lines why don't we ask for dots or cold nukes. Lets bring back our mezz and charm too because we won't be infringing on other class abilities.
I'm not saying there is no room for overlap, other classes have pets too. I'd just prefer to have boosts linked to pets like the "of many" line. I'm really sick of pets being banned on raids cause they are not worth the effort or risk. They need something to help make them worth keeping out.

It's raid burst dps we are mostly struggling with. I'm kind of curious what allows the new change and restrictions on fast dot's. Maybe it is something that can be use to specifically target increasing our raid only dps.

[svenalo]

If they are banning pets on your raids, then either your pet casters don't know how to control them or your raid leaders are playing the blame game. There is no reason to ban pets on most events.

[qibrme]

If they are banning pets on your raids, then either your pet casters don't know how to control them or your raid leaders are playing the blame game. There is no reason to ban pets on most events.

EDIT: Any Events.

Exception being swarms when AE's can cause them to hit the wrong target.

We raid with 5 to 8 magicians and the only time we are asked to not use pets is when learning a new event that the raid leader cannot figure out why we are failing.
He will ask different classes to not use an ability or pets for one or two tries in order to see the difference in the outcome.
Then we ALWAYS go back to using pets since there has NEVER been a fact based reson for not using pets as long as they are controlled.

/rant off -- banning pets is sore spot for many years now.

Sued...

[Calebe]

Banning pets still going on? What cave are those people in? Must be a deep dark one who love to blame pets over players who make the real mistakes (and yes it would not be the pet if it goes on the wrong mob, it is the mage allowing it to happen). So tell that person to stop the blame game and allow mages to do their job.

I have seen the blame game more then once. My favorite was when a mob was pushed all over on the 2nd try on a mob and the raid leader yelled out those smurf pets. I calmly informed him all pets were on hold and not used, blame melee as not one pet was used. That kind of put a stop to that for awhile.

To get more raid DPS from a pet the easiest way is to up massively the fire pet. it is not a tank pet in any sense of the word, way low hit points and when nuking it is not moving. I don't see why they can't make that pet do a good solid 4000 DPS (just picking a number). No mage would ever solo using a fire pet, and while you could use one grouped, you better have a smurf strong tank and good healing because if the tank dies that pet won't save you. A water pet has some tank ability, and backstab damage is nice, but to up DPS using a pet, and don't want it to be used in all situations the fire pet is the obvious answer. No tanking, no need to lessen it's already laughable hit points, it is a purely DPS pet and that is it.

If you solo you won't use a fire pet no matter it's DPS, as it can't move as it nukes or tank. You may use it in a group but I would use an air pet so when a mob we have in camp is being killed I can pull something and use the pet to tank it to keep a steady stream incoming, and to off tank in an emergency. I may use it if I want max DPS, but I may want to off tank at times, so depends on what you want to do.

No mage will use a DPS merc, a cleric is best for us. So let the fire pet be the DPS pet of choice.

Calebe

[Voragath]

What defines you as a magician. If you have no qualms about blurring lines why don't we ask for dots or cold nukes. Lets bring back our mezz and charm too because we won't be infringing on other class abilities.
I'm not saying there is no room for overlap, other classes have pets too. I'd just prefer to have boosts linked to pets like the "of many" line. I'm really sick of pets being banned on raids cause they are not worth the effort or risk. They need something to help make them worth keeping out.

It's raid burst dps we are mostly struggling with. I'm kind of curious what allows the new change and restrictions on fast dot's. Maybe it is something that can be use to specifically target increasing our raid only dps.

What defines me as a mage? The ability to nuke effectively, have a pet be able to tank/off tank, and a pet with great dps, and the ability to cast a pure melee dps pet. Wizards don't have this, necros don't, and beasts don't. We have a pet that is stronger than the other classes, are nukes are less efficient and effective than wizards, our aa's to effect many of our nukes are less than wizards, we cast less nukes than wizards, etc.

Answer: A mage is a class that relies on a pet for some dps, RS for some, and spells for some. How the spells are cast is irrelevant as long as some of our dps comes from RS and pets. We can't ever be able to burn like a wizard until they yank RS and Fluffy. If Fluffy and RS gets yanked, then, yes, we will effectively be wizards.

After some "teaching" I did to officers and my guild leader, pets are no longer banned. Currently, the only event with an issue is sisters in convo as we are just learning that event with it's transition to TFC. The only rule there is no swarms or dumb pets as the last sister is dying.

RE Necro dots: The mechanic behind that is that the mob is resistant to them or takes less damage which is probably some code on the spell slot.