new stuff

[Tacoma2586]

we got it together sued lol. We know what we want as a whole. they have sent eli parses,wish lists etc. Pay attention man for real. and such dev has said some things then done others. Take off your blinders.

[Piemastaj]

Our stuff is together, and has been sent out by atleast 4 mages. If you read the thread I can show you the EXACT pm I sent to Eli which clearly shows everything we asked for in the list Vora made on like page 6.

[Falore]

Calebe, I was prolly the mage that was very much against any nerfs to our mod rods. I have always and still considered mages to primarily be a dps class but my stance on mod rods in beta was towards the final phase of beta when it became very clear that our DPS was not going to get the boosts it needed before thule launched (which it indeed did not)
I was very set on us having powerful mod rods for all, not because i wanted us to be a utility class, but because our dps needs were being ignored and not sufficiently upgraded in the final 1.5 weeks of thule beta, our raid desirability towards the end of beta was basically dependant on us getting those powerful mod rods and for them to stay usable by all classes.

[Piemastaj]

Savil and I were throwing around some numbers this morning and wanted to see what the general feedback would be.

It seems we can all agree on we need roughly a 20k DPS increase. And since we can not agree on one area to put it all to, and the simple fact we have multiple areas that could use help, we found a way to split it up equally.

Servant of Ro: This seems to be a good time to get this type of pet back into gear. Also, it keeps poping up here and on EQlive. We figured since it needs a boost in HP/shielding we would ask for 10% of the DPS to come from this ability. That would make it 2k DPS (1400 DPS increase from its current form). This would hopefully just a start into more things to come.

Through various parses and such we have our 'swarm' pets at around 5.5k DPS (most of that is from Rag servant line). We also have a water pet with basic raid buffs at somewhere between 4 and 4.5k DPS on burn situations. So we figured a lot of mages want increases to come from these 2 types of pets aswell. So with 18k DPs left to spread-out (2k taken away for Servant of Ro), figured we could give 9k DPS to these 2 types of pets. Giving 4.5k DPS increase to each would make Rag servant burst to around 10k DPS, and our water pet burst to around 8k DPS (granted this is with minimal ADPS added to them).

That would leave the remaining 9k DPS to go into our nuke portion. Which the average to good mage will burn from 25 to 28k DPS with an enc. That would bring our burn to around 34 to 37k DPS.

So that would be 2k+10k+8k+37k=57k burn or so. Granted these are with minimal ADPS in the group. Currently in HoT most hard-core DPS classes can reach and exceed these limits already (if you think the number is high), so with a new expansion we should be right where we are needed to be.

These numbers seemed pretty fair to us, and it would pretty much address all 3 issues at once. I am hoping we can agree on some #s so we can PM Eli ( direct him to this thread also if he wont believe one mage) and give him what we think should be in each area. Then let the devs decide what abilities they will or will not give us to fill in for the #s. Since we have the abilities either already in-game or sent off to the devs.

[Voragath]

Personally, I'd not go below 10k from spells but I think the numbers are reasonable as is. A good baseline to go from, at the very least.

I do have ONE hangup: servant of ro. I'll start by saying I support the fix for SRo dps but it has this problem with using fire nukes. For it to work, either it needs to have nukes that are rarely resisted or the dps output needs to be bumped considerably to make up for it's terrible success rate. If neither of those options are possible, then we should shift those numbers elsewhere.

[Piemastaj]

If Servant of Ro can't be made better or up to where it would be viable in all environments then I would think we take away his 2k DPS and add it to our nuke to make nukes at 11k, fluffy/rag at 9k DPS. Or could go 50/50 (10k nukes, 10k pets. I would prefer slightly more in nukes imho).

[Savil]

My original idea was to have SoR doing 20k hits once it was fully upgraded, maybe add 10 new ranks of 12 shots to it and have it ramp to to the 20k hit target. We could also have them mod the resist on it when they up the hps...

Savil

[Elidroth]

The reality is swarm pets were never intended to be more than just a visually-flavored DOT. In truth, they were supposed to be fire-and-forget cool little things. That they've grown beyond that is unfortunate for MANY reasons, not the least of which is the sheer number of swarm pets that end up on raid targets these days.

I see nearly EVERY CLASS ask for 'more burst dps', so I'm curious.. What does Burst DPS mean to you? To me, it means you can boost your short term DPS, but with a price. If you can do it every single raid encounter, then it isn't burst. It's a normal part of your dps. In short, MY opinion is 'burst' abilities should have a LONG cooldown. 2 hours or more. Either that.. or the boosts need to be shorter duration, or less powerful.

Simply put, EQ is so complex today that any ability given is VERY hard (nigh impossible) to accurately predict how it will affect the class as a whole. We give players something that works well in the group game, and in the raid game it's CRAZY overpowered as a result of buffs, attributable DPS, and so forth. If we give people something that works well in raids, the group-centric players don't feel it's worth their time.

The only real solution is to make group and raid specific abilities that cannot work outside of those environments. Of course, this makes things that much more complicated on our end having to create double the abilities.

[Tacoma2586]

will say to that elid is look at wizards. they can do 40-50k dps each raid event. they have twincast like us/improved twincast/can use glyphs etc. you would really have to really work all classes if thats the case. what were looking at is a boost in dmg. it will help in burst situations but not nearly like any other class is expierencing still atm. were not asking to be the best but closer to atleast some of the lower end dps classes which isnt even asking much.

[Aither]

I see nearly EVERY CLASS ask for 'more burst dps', so I'm curious.. What does Burst DPS mean to you? To me, it means you can boost your short term DPS, but with a price. If you can do it every single raid encounter, then it isn't burst. It's a normal part of your dps. In short, MY opinion is 'burst' abilities should have a LONG cooldown. 2 hours or more. Either that.. or the boosts need to be shorter duration, or less powerful.

I personally have never been fond of the term "Burst Dps" in regards to Magicians as a class. Historically Magician's have not had true Burst DPS. As a Magician I see our capabilities as either Burn or Sustained DPS. Rangers supply us with a good reference to a Burst Discipline, Trueshot.
In a Burn situation Magicians activate every ability possible for the encounter, but these are all short term most ending in or around the 2-3 minute range, this Historically has been our niche when contributing any real DPS to an encounter.
Sustained DPS, I see as what we can provide as a normal part of our damage. Sustained is just that, what we could keep up during a longer encounter, it may include the use of our "Burn" abilities it will still be what we can sustain on average throughout a whole encounter.
In either situation magicians have fall far short of the expectations of the Magician class as a whole, as well, far short of the expectations of a DPS class on a raid. While there are those in favor of pet upgrades and those in favor of Spell damage upgrades, the Magician community as a whole entity, desires change for the better. Most of this community also know that the developers have given their own time to hear the input of the class. Most of us are also aware that there are items on our "wish list" that just can't be done for us currently.
The key to a successful relationship is not only communication, but a willingness to compromise when the parties do not see eye to eye. Let us keep this in mind as we move forward towards a better tomorrow for Magicians, in whole, as a Class.

Aither 90 Magician
Triality