master Spell idea list for new expansion

[Baramos]

Just a caution, since my account's expired now and I'm not likely to be around when the new expansion rolls around - I would be very careful about asking to get an iceflame type buff to land on PCs. Iceflame is shrouded a bit in mystery now, and that's good. It is an incredibly powerful spell. If it were able to be cast on a PC, and then (whatever) was tuned around PCs having the effect our pets would suffer implicitly down the road. That's a prediction, not a fact.

Here's a fact, though. Look at nominal proc rates and then look at your pet parses. You will find something interesting. If you look closely you will omfg.

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Someone above said hey, wasn't that buff designed around being able to absorb spell damage, too? The answer is yes. It was during GoD beta when MS4 was being discussed. (BTW, MS4 in its original form was a monster - yet another Mage beta tester said "too powerful nerf it" /boggle, and it was) - anyway, the way it ended up fleshing out was that the MS pet would be a "Raid Pet" and the Prism Skin would absorb AEs for the very reason the person above said - to make it live on raids.

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One last thing. People love to bash on Mage pets. "Too powerful" jealousy abounds, among other complaints. The kind of bickering that you're seeing on EQPlayers forum right now is something to be avoided because it incites people. All that hoohah in the long thread that Tulisin is keeping alive defending Mage pets is better kept in a quasi-civil or limited forum. We're already near the bottom of the heap with respect to desirability. We don't need the angry hordes screaming nerf at the same time they're saying they don't want us anyway. And they'll do that if they're bored. Just look at the screaming about server names - anything for a reason to complain, and the bad thing is, the devs respond to it. Someone ought to tell Tulisin to put a lid on it. He's just fanning flames.

Good Luck.

Remember, SCALING.

Baramos

[Merlaina]

Alright, you two have managed to convince me. Better to have two lines that are essentially the same but tuned better for their respective targets than one spell line that's only tuned well for players and not pets.

[deadman1204]

I agree, lets not get a icestrike proc for PCs. We are not buffers, the last think i want is to get bugged about keeping more buffs up on people

[Voragath]

It's not about being a buff class, which is why it's perfect for our normal DS. Keep the duration as it's always been, just change the resist to a prism skin/prism skin-like buff. Everyone knows about prism skin, Bara, sorry to say, and they'd love to have it. Keeping it on a short duration keeps us from being a buffing class and limits the power. Besides, only the tanks are gonna need it anyway and one DS gets you through a raid fight. Want it mgb'd? Then take on more mages. They certainly aren't gonna beef up our dps. Rogues, zerks, monks, wizzies, and necros all think they should beat us out, and sometimes rangers. A bump in pet power will give us dps but we can see how fast that'll get nerfed. Nerfing a prism skin turns it into an uber melee/spell rune which still makes mages necessary.

This won't be so game changing that people will be asking for it in GL or even requiring it be mgb'd before every fight. Really, only your top 3 tanks should be requiring it. It'll amount to fluff for anyone else as they'll not be getting hit that often. And doesn't only melee dmg proc it anyway?

[Baramos]

No, "everyone" doesn't really don't know about prism skin. Not even most Mages. Not the way I'm talking about, and not even in a conventional sense. This is why I only allude to it above, instead of being specific. In addition to that, "pet stuff" is out in the ether to most people. There is no hue and cry for this buff from other classes. They're concerned mostly with their historic lines.

They'll boost our DPS. I don't know what gives you the idea they won't. It is our job to ensure they do it properly, and that's not too tall an order considering their own observations and their connection with some of the Mages on this forum.

And I don't understand why you say "we can see how fast that will get nerfed" with respect to Pet Power.

Pet Power is where we must concentrate, and hand-waving an "it will get nerfed" surrender flag is exactly opposite of what our stance should be, in addition to which the statement itself appeared out of nowhere, seemingly.

We have in recent times been in contention for top-billing in many raid parses. This is a wax and wane situation, naturally, but we don't want to give them any reason to diminish increases in DPS because of some "utility". And in context with my other reasoning, I believe it should be put on the shelf.

Making some buff utility a point of advance is a bad idea. You say it will "make Mages necessary". Well I don't want to be "made necessary" because I have a buff I can give them.

Mages are a DPS class centered around the Pet. Let's keep it that way. Let's push Pet Power. Let's Push DPS. Let's push Scaling.

I pretty much disagree with your entire post, there.

[svenalo]

Or, in the spirit of asking for the moon, we can ask for all of it.

[Zacatac]

Personally I'd like to see 0.5 to 1.0 seconds knocked off the base casting times of Bolt, Fickle, Shock and the rain spells as an upgrade.

[Merlaina]

I think there may be some misunderstanding in at least what I'm asking for here. I'm certainly not asking for a iceflame style buff for players instead of a DPS increase. I want it in addition to a DPS increase. And of course we're going to get a DPS increase in the sense that we'll get our normal lines upgraded. I think the question is whether we'll get a DPS increase relative to the DPS increase other classes will get. Will we close ground on wizards, rogues, and necros, fall further behind, or just tread water? Of course the mage community would like to see us gain ground, if not even surpass some of those classes.

Saying we're not a buffing class is correct, but that doesn't mean we can't have good buffs to give to others. Right now we're not top DPS, and since we don't have much else to bring to the table in the way of utility we're not highly desired for groups or raids. Wizards and rogues don't have a lot in the way of utility either, but they have the DPS to not need utility. If we're not going to be top DPS we need some utility to make us desirable, and I think an iceflame style spell for players would be an excellent type to bring to the table.

I'm not saying we should give up on DPS, but realistically are they going to up our DPS above wizards and rogues? Probably not. Should we push for that level of DPS? Absolutely. But adjusting a buff we already cast (DS) to increase its utility can't be a bad thing, and would help make us desirable instead of a class to fill a slot when there aren't enough rogues/wizards/necros around.

[Baramos]

You know what. I think all of you people are extremely competent and intelligent people, and know what (and how) to ask for things. At this point, with my personal issues and the question of whether I'll even get to return, I should probably just keep quiet. =)

It is a bit hard for me to do so since I've been doing betas since 99, so there's a reason, not an excuse, why I have kept in the fray. I love the Mage class.

But, considering that it's time to go, I'll do that !

Best of luck to all of you.

[Calebe]

No thanks on any buff that will not land on a pet. No way do I want to be part of a buffing class, that has happened in the past with the infinite rods for others and all we did was 'buff' mana to others. Been there, and I never did it. I would for myself but not for raids. Sorry it is not the class we signed up for.

You want to give a iceflame proc to others all your doing is what a chanter can already do and give them a rune skin except it won't need to be redone as it auto procs. You have any idea how many will see that and scream to high heaven no wonder pets are so good. Of course most won't realize that pets do not have the ac of a tank nor the survivability of any tank with similar aa's no all you will hear is cries for nurfs from the very same people who you want to use this spell on.

Think about the class, it is a mage+pet class. It is meant to be self sufficient, to make trinkets for others, but our main ability the shining crown if you will, is our pet. We use 1000's of AA's to make it as good as it can get. We do not buff others except a damage shield which needs help I grant you, but please before you sign on to a spell that is not directed at and for your pet that is a buff, rethink it. We fought long and smurf hard to be a DPS class, and an independent class that can solo with our pet out of the box. All our focus needs to be on the pet, on DPS, on those 2 core values and leave buffing to others. Please think about any idea to buff others as a bad idea, we need to focus on pets, pets, and pets. Not utility unless that utility is directed at and for our pets.

DPS is our roll, and off tanking with a pet at least in the grouping and majorly so if soloing. We need ways to make pets better and dps. One idea voiced by others, make the fire pet crit on it's spells and let it act as a focus for our fire nukes as well, sort of how a flappy works for a wizard. We can have certain things pet pet, water for mana regen, and air for a bonus for over cap on nukes to resist less, earth for hit points as an example.

These are all pet centric ideas and ones that help all mages in all styles of play. The mage can solo so any spell we push must be kept in mind with that thought.

Think about the pet idea, fire pet great for a raid for more crit, but smurf that water pet will give me mana regen, but smurf these mobs resist at times and an air pet to help spells hit for full more often arggg which way to go.

That is the ideal when the pets all give something of bonus that you actually may end up swapping pets for the bonus they supply. Pet centric is what the class was and is meant to be. We need help in DPS, we need help with pets DPS, we need help with pet survivability. We correct those and mages will welcome with open arms into groups and raids as each mage now brings something they need. DPS and in groups a tank or a smurf good off tank. Raids will get what they crave a DPS class to take note of, and not a class that 1 mage can cast the spell so why do they need more then one?

No sorry and feel free to disagree but we need to remain centered on being all about the pet and DPS, not some buff for others that one mage can do for a whole raid. Stay focused for beta on pets pets and pets and dps.

Calebe