New AA Request From Eli

[Cielli]

IF we get any AAs to kill off our ONLY, let me say that again, ONLY LINE OF DEFENSE I will be beyond disappointed and see it as us failing in beta yet again. To even make that an option on this thread is absurd to say the least. Not even from being put into a tank grp perspective, from any mages perspective. If you are willing to give up your only life-line then you need to pick a different class because that WILL never happen. If it does, that spells horrible, horrible things for the mage class because that opens the door for sole upgrades based on us not having a pet which will push us into becoming a wizard.

Please keep this civil, there is no reason to tell some1 to shut-up anywhere. Savil was not rude by any means, he gave his opinion just like you gave yours.

Than don't tell me " to never bring up an idea". That's tantamount to telling me to shut up, not once, but whenever you don't agree. God help you, if after having already explained this, you still go on about 'losing' your only line of defense... This is a utility suggestion for grouping, It has nothing to do with taking your pet away from you should you not want to use it. It would be useful for bad pulls and extreme circumstances to buy time, ie, evac, heal etc. or to finish off a mob if something adds. ONCE AN HOUR! ... and you could immediately resummon another pet. I have no idea where your irrational fear/argument is coming from.

You don't see the potential or care, that's fine, you had your turn and made your suggestions... But don't ever tell me what I can and can not suggest here. I pay for the game, same as you.

[Savil]

I can't remember the nec spell off the top of my head but it would help via something like DMG reduction ... I know several guilds that forced their necs to load that spell and hurt their DPS to help the tanks, esp on new fights.

You pretty much do what your told by your raid leader. If we get a spell that I can full heal an entire group by killing a pet bet your $@@#$ it would be exploited, and WHY NOT, something so completely over the top powerful should be. Even at 1 time / hour its so unbalanced its unreal. Its yet another way to nerf a mages DPS.

I know this is an unpopular thing to say anymore on this board but ... reality check, Magicians are DPS. So many good ideas have already been posted in the past... kinda makes this entire thread pointless.

I don't mind mages getting a cute AA that is just for fun, but look back at the times its already been done. AA's like Call might be fun to screw with guildies while waiting for a raid to setup but what did that AA cost us? If you think all these BS AA's cost us nothing and they aren't going to hold it against us when they are doing class Core AA's your all nuts.

Its pretty simple, the more BS AA's they add the less core upgrades we get. Magicians are already 20K DPS behind (and this last round of "changes" did nothing to help this from mine and others testing) and this will becomes stupid large by the next exp. If we don't all get on the same page and stop asking for complete nonsense AA's no mage will be asked to raid beyond 1. Were already seeing this take place.

Every time a post like this goes up the entire class gets hurt. Please .. Think about what your saying, think about how its going to work against the class. Look at history and you'll see this has played out time and time again.

Not picking on anybody here, but I'll put it very simple. If we end up with an elemental horse, a list of AA's that KILL MY PET for something OP'ed or just outright stupid, any AA that heals in any way at all beyond maybe a pet HOT, all over getting ACTUAL DPS UPGRADES, you will see the mage class DIE. Sure there will be a handful of groupers / solo'ers that are completely happy with the changes and will tell the devs what a great job they did for the entire year but the class will be reduced to beastlord levels, and look how long it took them to get out of that and actually wanted on raids again.

Please guys, think about this, put the class ahead of your own "thats cool" for a few. IMHO this will be the last exp mages get a good shot at something good, please don't shoot us all in the foot by asking for stuff that doesn't matter.

Savil

[svenalo]

We already had an AA that caused the pet to exploded on use, and it was an unmitigated disaster, and the aa subsequently was changed later. Hence why we who were around then are strongly opposed to any thoughts in that direction.

And for god sake civility is one thing, but people need to get a thicker skin too. Getting bent because you don't like how someone phrased a response to what they perceived as a dumb idea is just wasting effort. Yes be nice. But don't take every little word as a bullet or something meant as a personal insult either.

Savil and Pie speak from past experience on what happens when fluff and bad ideas trump things that address the needs of the class as a whole...it would be wise to listen to them. And I will say again, the top ideas from the last expansion (HoT from May 2010) still are valid and needed, as is our unending refrain that was on the top of that:

"As of May 4, we have an OVERWHELMING CONCENSUS:
Mage #1 priority is our pet, our pet, our pet - the meaner, beefier, the better. AA's should enhance the pet, but out of the box they should already rock. The standard for them rocking, as set in SoF, is a mage with a pet from the current expansion can defeat blue con mobs of the current expansion WITHOUT the pet being focused and WITHOUT a merc healer.
Mage #2 priority is mana regen, whether it be from super mod rods, vastly beefed up Thaumatize, vastly improved water elemental form, and the like. The only exception is a big NO if it was an extension of the pet reclaim functionality."

And now that we have gotten HoT and seen what resulted there, we can add a #3 on that, with regard to the need for DPS increases especially in burst and again for the pet.

The AA requests for HoT (prior to the voting occurred) are at:

http://eqmagetower.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2125

[Danille]

I thought the #1 consensus was that we needed our raid DPS fixed because it was broken.

[Piemastaj]

Cie, like Sven said I thought that idea was the worst possible idea EVER. I could have, and quite possibly should have been meaner with it, but I wasn't. If you actually played a mage back in the day before they got the pet upgrades, before we actually had a way to escape from mob aggro (drape/CoN) you would understand what an epic fail of getting a pet kill AA would be. For example, why would you kill your pet when you get an add? Offtank that mob with your pet and go about your business. If you need help killing the mob nuke harder, use twincast, rag more. There are plenty of other simple ways, and frankly better classes to do what your proposing with that AA line.

My argument is coming from past things done with the mage class. And it is quite vaild, if you look at beastlords for atleast 3 years they were horrible iirc. Now I don't know exactly why that was the case, but it is a good idea that they asked for nonsense things for their class instead of what they actually needed (ie: DPS and utility upgrades).

Wanted to make a special paragraph here: our pet is our only line of defense. Whether you feel that is true or not, that is up to you but the fact remains. That is the sole reason why it is beefed up so we can actually last if things go wrong, we dont get root/evac/snare/fade (w/o a pet up).

Cie, I am going to say it again don't post about EVER killing our pets. We wont bring it up to the devs which is the whole point of it, so I was helping you not waste time. The idea failed of epic proportions before, and we frankly we have so many other needs at this time, it would be a waste of everyones time in beta to fiddle with a useless AA like that.

Sven/Dani our #1 goal is DPS now. Atleast that is what was the consensus out of the new stuff thread, so it should go (based off Sven's list) 1.DPS, 2. Pets, 3. Mana regen. I would also stress we need to recover our recent loss of mana from the spear upgrade as well, so beta mages need to push for Spear to be where it was before the change mana-wise. In SoD we were very well off in DPS and such, but UF/HoT made us fall off quite heavily which is why it changed up some.

EDIT: Figure we can prob give this until Monday for ideas then compile a list together and get it up on eqplayers.

[Tweelis]

I pay for the game, same as you.

Something tells me you think this may be an official Sony/EQ ran board. If you think you having a paid EQ subscription entitles you to post on this board you're sadly mistaken. If you think being a citizen of whatever country you live in gives you the right to post whatever on this board you're still sadly mistaken.

This board exists because EQ Mage Tower set it up initially and because there are unpaid volunteers help keep the thing running. There are also people that toss in donations to help offset the costs of running.

I and a few othes kinda equate this board to EQ Mage Tower's house. He bought the house and "The Team" lives in the house as roommates. Everybody is invited but if one of the residents in the house gets mad at a guest they can and probably will tell the guest to leave. I'm guessing "The Team" would enjoy it if the guests would bring a 6 pack of something to drink to the party but even then the team can ask somebody to get out of their house if behavior gets out of line.

Bottom line, these are private forums. The mods/admins don't need to cater to anybody and they can in fact do as they please within reason; including telling you what you are allowed to say in their house.

[Tweelis]

I wouldn't want this as an AA request but more of a "how things are displayed" request. Would it be possible to change damage shield messages from their generic text to something that attributes damage shield damage back to the caster? Granted if a raid leader notices a mage doing damage via surge of shadowflares or VF it might be a bane to anybody that wants to nuke but it may also make us more desirable in raid situations. Keep in mind I have no idea how much this would change at the top end (haven't been an end game raider since PoP) but it's just an idea.

[Danille]

I wouldn't want this as an AA request but more of a "how things are displayed" request. Would it be possible to change damage shield messages from their generic text to something that attributes damage shield damage back to the caster? Granted if a raid leader notices a mage doing damage via surge of shadowflares or VF it might be a bane to anybody that wants to nuke but it may also make us more desirable in raid situations. Keep in mind I have no idea how much this would change at the top end (haven't been an end game raider since PoP) but it's just an idea.

Yeah we have asked for this a few times now and the code just isnt there to give the mage who cast the DS credit. In a perfect world, it would be wonderful though.

[Sunlace]

You pretty much do what your told by your raid leader. If we get a spell that I can full heal an entire group by killing a pet bet your $@@#$ it would be exploited, and WHY NOT, something so completely over the top powerful should be. Even at 1 time / hour its so unbalanced its unreal. Its yet another way to nerf a mages DPS.

This. Cielli, if you want to play healer, roll a cleric. If you want to play class that can do fancy op'd tricks please roll a necro. Mage is dps. No ... MAGE IS DPS.

Its pretty simple, the more BS AA's they add the less core upgrades we get. Magicians are already 20K DPS behind (and this last round of "changes" did nothing to help this from mine and others testing) and this will becomes stupid large by the next exp. If we don't all get on the same page and stop asking for complete nonsense AA's no mage will be asked to raid beyond 1. Were already seeing this take place.
Savil

I second this. I would prefer having the basics covered, not that I have something against fluff, but I want to have the most important things taken care of : DPS, PET, MANA REGEN. I want mage class to be sought after when people want stuff killed, I want to see mages (plural, not just one to cover rods) accepted to high end guilds again, I want us to be up there on parses competing with the rest of dps classes. My list is short: DPS, PET, MANA REGEN .

[svenalo]

Oh I agree the number 1 is now DPS...I was merely quoting the post from last year. DPS would be #1 now followed by the other two, but they are all the top 3.