The Magician's Tower

Pie, you obviously have never attended any kind of class on problem solving techniques.

Calebe wrote:To help mana regen, the 20% addition to rods help, but not a solution but once implimented it can be increased with more AA's. So a step in the right direction.

Other suggestions that I have given. Aa to reduce the cast time on gather potential, it is way to long a cast time. AA to reduce the reuse time on Gather Potential. AA to also also increase the mana returned on Gather Potential same as for rod but for Gather. So add in 20% to Gather with a lower (read as less then 5 seconds, the lower the better) cast time, and a 5 minute reuse to match the rods, and now you have something going in the right direction. They may not want one solution so gives them 2. Sure it means more grinding AA's but those extra ones will help.

Fickle was a great spell, but with chaining bolts, it just isn't used, so move the proc from Fickle to the 91 bolt so it will be cast and the proc will come into play again.

Remember turned summoned AA? Well with a lot of summoned mobs in Windsong, time to update it back to something usable, with a way less recast time, and we will (at least for this expansion) have a anti summoned AA we will use to grind, and is a T4 zone for a double win for it's use. Not sure as not in T4 raids, if there are summoned mobs but if there are, this becomes useful on raids as well.

An AA to turn the earth pets root to a snare. OK I know, but seeing if anyone read this far. It has been asked for many times and turned down, but with us getting IVU, well we can ask.

Calebe

I actually asked for this in beta. Apparently it was not liked or not wanted because it didn't go in.

I would rather keep the root as I use it to help pulling in some instances, but a toggle able snare AA for Earth would b nice.

The lower re-use time was supposed to get done via a type 3, which was on test but I guess got removed for some reason. But would be a way to increase us, though it might be conflicting with the way Wizard Harvest is done via spell (unsure if that is correct or not as I haven't looked at lucy).

@Sven, I actually have. I actually do solve quite a lot of problems. A dumb or stupid idea will get you no where. The only thing it can do is get people's hopes up about it going through, and then when it doesn't it discourages people. There is nothing wrong with saying you do not like an idea, that is dumb to think there is. There is nothing wrong discussing it either. You can not expect this to be a vacuum where ideas only go in and no1 can feel free to give their thoughts about them.

We have free speech on these boards, and are open to multiple opinions. Asking people to stfu in a thread that is trying to generate ideas is counterproductive. Discussing a bad idea, can in fact bring about a good idea.

Piemastaj wrote:

dorfillya wrote:20% is better than 10%. Thanks for that. But, overall, that is only a fraction of the help mages need for raiding.

I am not solely directing this at you, but I see a whole lot of B*tching on these boards and not a whole lot of suggestions going out that would actually help. And no not just 'we need burst' or 'we need mana regen'. That is stating our problems, a solution is coming up with new spell/AA ideas for our issues. Or other areas we can look into, to increase us.

If you look at last expansion we had practically no ideas outside of the ones I proposed for our hurting areas. That is a problem. It would be unwise to assume SOE will magically think of a way to solve our issues, we need to do it ourselves.

Less doom and gloom and more ideas would be quite nice.

I tend to agree with you... but then I remember the full month of brainstorming we did and sending elidroth AA idea after idea and having like almost everything we sent in rejected, and the one idea he takes (FC) he put in with less effect than we told him would be needed.

Kinda kills the desire. I also find it pretty funny to consider the fact that they are payed to be devs ... to come up with ideas to make the game fun. Yet time and time again they place that responsibility back on the players because they are clueless how to do it... Which isn't hard to see why considering the fact they don't freaking play the game. Guess it would be hard to dev for a game you don't have any real insight into.

Savil

Saying "dumb/stupid" is the problem. That's a way to alienate and put people down. You can say an idea is good or bad based on data but dumb/stupid is relative and based on personal feeling. Lets avoid doing that as that is the point of those two posts. In my aa and spell idea threads, I was trying to set up what Sven was talking about.

Harvest type 3 did not go in because it was not working. I have no idea why.

Stop complaining about the percents of the mod rod already. The percent is both health and mana. If you get 20% mana returned, it's gonna take 20% more life from you. Additionally, as someone pointed out, it can be increased more as necessary but currently it is broken and not working. Its values are a moot point until it gets fixed, if ever.

If it's not fixed in the next few months, we can use this setback as leverage to get our own personal mod rods...FINALLY.

Savil wrote:

Piemastaj wrote:

dorfillya wrote:20% is better than 10%. Thanks for that....

I am not solely directing this at you, but I see a whole lot of...

I tend to agree with you... but then I remember the full month of brainstorming we did and sending elidroth AA idea after idea and having like almost everything we sent in rejected, and the one idea he takes (FC) he put in with less effect than we told him would be needed.

Kinda kills the desire. I also find it pretty funny to consider the fact that they are payed to be devs ... to come up with ideas to make the game fun. Yet time and time again they place that responsibility back on the players because they are clueless how to do it... Which isn't hard to see why considering the fact they don't freaking play the game. Guess it would be hard to dev for a game you don't have any real insight into.

Savil

At the risk of sounding apologetic here, this is not exactly true. It appears that way from the standpoint of us looking in but now that I have the ability to get in and look out, the view is very different. What actually happens is they do have ideas already and they also want ideas from players that the players want. It's their job to decide whether an ability should go in or not and isn't completely decided by Aristo or Eli. These abilities are discussed, if even somewhat limited, with a team. I'm not sure how the rejection or acceptance process works. Also, there are times it takes an aa a long time to get in as we've all seen aa's asked for over the years show up suddenly such as Selo's Kick for bards.

To help with AA and spell rejection, I think our list should indicate what we are hoping to accomplish with each aa and spell. This way, hopefully, the devs can consider a change that would be similar to what we want so we can still get our ideas in.

Voragath wrote:Saying "dumb/stupid" is the problem. That's a way to alienate and put people down. You can say an idea is good or bad based on data but dumb/stupid is relative and based on personal feeling. Lets avoid doing that as that is the point of those two posts. In my aa and spell idea threads, I was trying to set up what Sven was talking about.

Harvest type 3 did not go in because it was not working. I have no idea why.

Stop complaining about the percents of the mod rod already. The percent is both health and mana. If you get 20% mana returned, it's gonna take 20% more life from you. Additionally, as someone pointed out, it can be increased more as necessary but currently it is broken and not working. Its values are a moot point until it gets fixed, if ever.

If it's not fixed in the next few months, we can use this setback as leverage to get our own personal mod rods...FINALLY.

While I agree with your thoughts on dumb / stupid .. you have to admit some of the ideas being tossed around on this board are so stupid it hurts. *grin*

The problem with the "it can be increased later, just get the change in first" line of thought is the simple fact that later seems to never come, or does during the next exp and we end up staying at the same *overall* too low state.

Selos kick was put in as a joke... it was a long running joke among bards.

Savil

Yes it was a joke first but then it actually was asked for as a serious ability when bard dps became a topic for bards.

The increase does come for the make it first, sometimes. It doesn't have to be made in the middle of an expansion; we just vie for a larger than normal increase on the next expansion. You are right in that there is the possibility the increase doesn't come as we have seen for many things; however, I'd imagine many people would be happier to have an ability with low numbers than no ability at all if those are the two choices.

You are also missing the strategy we were taking with some of these aa's. The strategy is to get an idea in, then use it for next expansion to get a bigger boost or couple to a new idea for a synergistic boost. Think of it as us getting our foot in the door. An example would be to take VT and make another aa similar to it so that the two can be used in conjuction to replicate the rogues' Vallon/Tallon poison abilities when the raid has more than one mage (just a made up example).

Voragath wrote:Yes it was a joke first but then it actually was asked for as a serious ability when bard dps became a topic for bards.

The increase does come for the make it first, sometimes. It doesn't have to be made in the middle of an expansion; we just vie for a larger than normal increase on the next expansion. You are right in that there is the possibility the increase doesn't come as we have seen for many things; however, I'd imagine many people would be happier to have an ability with low numbers than no ability at all if those are the two choices.

You are also missing the strategy we were taking with some of these aa's. The strategy is to get an idea in, then use it for next expansion to get a bigger boost or couple to a new idea for a synergistic boost. Think of it as us getting our foot in the door. An example would be to take VT and make another aa similar to it so that the two can be used in conjuction to replicate the rogues' Vallon/Tallon poison abilities when the raid has more than one mage (just a made up example).

I get what your saying, its not a "new" approach at all. The biggest issue with it is the simple fact that later usually never happens.

I have an issue with the logic of "get an ability with low numbers than no ability at all" because later we will get beat up with the fact we got new stuff... it wont matter that the stuff we got sucked badly. We've seen them time and time again say "we only have so much dev time per class". I'd rather get *1* thing / exp that kicked ass than 3-4 smurf ones that we will spend the next 3 years yelling to try to get them actually made useful.

I have no issues with the idea of synergistic effects, in fact I see that as a way to keep us balanced raid vs group. I just have zero faith that the current dev time can / will do this. They are very willing to give us substandard effects but when it comes to actually giving us something solid they always seem to falls short.

My biggest fear here is simple, the more small effects we get pushed, the more they will say they are actually working on the class when overall they are not. Not only that but all the time and effort mages will spend trying to turn those substandard abilities into something useful will makes a few mages like PJ burnout, and while were pushing to have those abilities made useful were not coming up with other ideas that would actually help fix the class.

The more of this small BS we accept the more "cluttered" the playing field becomes and the harder it will be to actually fix the classes actual faults.

Savil

Voragath wrote:Saying "dumb/stupid" is the problem. That's a way to alienate and put people down. You can say an idea is good or bad based on data but dumb/stupid is relative and based on personal feeling. Lets avoid doing that as that is the point of those two posts. In my aa and spell idea threads, I was trying to set up what Sven was talking about.

Harvest type 3 did not go in because it was not working. I have no idea why.

Stop complaining about the percents of the mod rod already. The percent is both health and mana. If you get 20% mana returned, it's gonna take 20% more life from you. Additionally, as someone pointed out, it can be increased more as necessary but currently it is broken and not working. Its values are a moot point until it gets fixed, if ever.

If it's not fixed in the next few months, we can use this setback as leverage to get our own personal mod rods...FINALLY.

Saying an idea is bad or good is also based on feeling. Like I said if I believe an idea is bad, dumb, stupid, horrific, wtfever ect I am going to say it (just like the multiple pet buff). It is nothing against any1, it is against that person's idea. Most of us here I would imagine are not big bad bullies out to hurt people, I am one of the people who does not like sugar coating things either. If you can't handle your idea is bad or stupid or whatever, that is not my fault imho. It is called stating my opinion which I am entitled to just as much as the poster is with posting their idea.

As to the other points made I tend to agree with Savil. Getting 5 small things is great for a little kid on Christmas, but I believe most of us are adults and want a nice big gift (you know a car, Diamond ring, TV ect). Being happy that we get small little increases is fine for when we get them, but will it continue for the entire expansion? No. As it is, the Virulent Talon talk has already died down only a month after we got it. People are realizing, wow you were right this AA isn't as great as it would seem. That is because it isn't that good. Like I have said in Mage chat, I wish Elidroth would have spoken to me about that AA (considering it was my idea), I could have probably gotten it to either be sustained or a burst disc. Instead it isn't for anything but a nice fluff thingy or more solo if anything.

The major issue is, this is going on over 3 years now (probably closer to 4). Most mages who were fighting for our things have long since gone. There are very FEW left who actually were around before SoF. It is ridiculous that they have the ideas out there (as you said Vora), but refuse to put them into action. It is also very trying on most mages to keep putting up with this B*llsh*t, year in and year out. To put it very plainly if things don't get done with this expansion I will probably be retiring Pie when the new expansion is announced. This was our make or break expansion, and it is fully broken for us. We have lost our grp niche now, our raid niche has been gone for quite some time.

I can't even begin to describe how disgusted I am at the lack of knowledge the devs show when I send them every kind of data/parse they could possibly need. Not to mention all the ideas myself and other mage's have brought up to them, and nothing gets done. We actually got LAUGHED at when asking for more burst because Fire Core 'got increased more then anyother classes DMG disc did', or something along those lines by Elidroth.

I do fully understand Elidroth has to work with other devs to fix our issues. But he and the other devs need to understand they shouldn't say anything at all if they are not going to do what they say they are going to do. They came here in April and said we all know your hurting, we are going to help. Nothing came, and we have yet to hear any word about increases coming. But Wizards do....