new stuff

[Malleria]

I do know that Eli didn't make these changes though he told me Aristo did for our spell.

Pretty much par for the course with Aristo.

[Aumeldarie]

I would also stop comparing anything we have to something some1 else has. That is just flirting with nerf action to another class, or showing we are jealous.

I would actually encourage people to compare things on our own boards to other classes. This is one way we get new ideas for things that might be good for us. There is a reason I didn't post anything like this on the eqlive forums. I posted them here so that people see the numbers before they post how awesome it is on the in-testing discussion forum.

Also part of the reason we finally got a large nuke was because of the years of mages asking for something comparable to the wizzy Ethereal. Because of this I didn't see anything wrong with the comparison. Like I said I didn't post anything similar to this on the live boards because I don't want another class nerfed. IMO what I posted on our boards doesn't hurt anyone.

Comparing us to wizards and saying we want a bigger nuke like thiers is different then what was done here. I am sorry I should have been more clear. What was done here is actually comparing mana costs and dmg ratios with our spells and wizard spells. That really can not be done because of the various other factors going into how each class is made ( they have different crit mods, they have resist adjusts, their AA discs do different things, they dont have a pet ect).

And also, if you haven't noticed Elidroth does post on our boards and such. And I am sure he reads some of the comments, so posting things like that on here can possibly be just as bad as posting them on EQlive.

I have noticed that but I don't think that means I should have to censor data that anyone can find if they look. I tend to be a very careful person in what I post and after the dozens of posts that I would find embarassing to the mage class as a whole within these forums I don't see the one I did as being one of them. I usually agree with your posts Piemastaj but I think on this one I will be hard to convine.

I guess I didn't really make it clear though why I was comparing our spell to theirs. In general our spells have been less damage but generally more mana efficient. With this change our nuke is still smaller than theirs and less mana efficient. I believe I am quoting several here when I say I don't want to give up something to get something.

[Piemastaj]

Never said you did or implied it really, atleast I didn't intend to. That part of my post was directly related to you posting, "Like I said I didn't post anything similar to this on the live boards because I don't want another class nerfed.". Was just making sure you knew a dev does skim through these boards and such, so it is under the same type of things as Eqlive is in terms of possible nerfs and such.

And that is how it should be our spells are supposed to be less dmg (wizzies should out-burst us), but more efficient so we can last longer doing that same dmg. This change is one for the worse, which is why we should try and get it rectified. Like I said though this Spear change was a surprise to everyone, it would have been a lot better if they came to us and said look we want to increase a spell or 2 of yours and we could have come up with a compromise of sorts that was fair both ways.

Tbh I don't really care if anyone agrees with me (no I'm not trying to be a d*ck either), everyone has their own opinion and is entitled to them. Would be a pretty boring game if everyone agreed with eachother lol.

[Adonhiram]

Well, let's stop a long and interesting discussion, and let's all agree about :

A : keep Spear as it is

B : add a type 3 augment for Spear

instead of upping Spear's damage and degradating its dpm efficiency.

And no word about wizzies

BTW, do you know if other classes have core or very important nukes/heals without type 3 ?

[Voragath]

Don't bother sending in a parse using glyph or 7th or any of that funny business because the devs have already said they ignore those. You have to send in a CLEAN parse or don't bother. You'll certainly take a hit on the guild boards those nights but it's what we have to do.

[qibrme]

Posting here regarding your feelings about class balance is better thatn putting it on the SoE baords IMO because the DEV's are the people we are trying to reach and convince that our arguments are valid.
If you post on the general SoE forums the negative inputs from other classes tend to dilute our conversation, thereby making it harder to get our point across to the DEV's.

Just need to get Elidroth to continue posting here wih feedback on why the change was made in this way so that the mage community can have a better understanding of the why's and how's that go into DEV reasoning... My wishfull thinkng

Also have to remember to be careful what you wish for.
It rarely comes in exactly the package we imagined.

Sued...

[Calebe]

Don't forget the upgrade to Fire Core and how that will effect Spear and all our fire based spells. It may just offset the huge mana cost (At least in the burst situation). The new Fire Core upgrade with the increase to the base of Spear will be a lot larger increase then the numbers presently suggest. Only testing will show, so till the new numbers are in, I say we hold judgement and see. It won't hurt to ask for a reduction in mana cost for Spear as it will hurt the non raider a lot just using Spear in their normal nuke lineup, as for burst using Fire Core, that is a different matter and needs testing. I would say we should ask for a similar increase to First Spire so we can use it right after Fire Core.

Calebe

[Piemastaj]

Don't forget the upgrade to Fire Core and how that will effect Spear and all our fire based spells. It may just offset the huge mana cost (At least in the burst situation). The new Fire Core upgrade with the increase to the base of Spear will be a lot larger increase then the numbers presently suggest. Only testing will show, so till the new numbers are in, I say we hold judgement and see. It won't hurt to ask for a reduction in mana cost for Spear as it will hurt the non raider a lot just using Spear in their normal nuke lineup, as for burst using Fire Core, that is a different matter and needs testing. I would say we should ask for a similar increase to First Spire so we can use it right after Fire Core.

Calebe

Cal, you should absolutely be using First Spire DURING Fire Core. Fire Core enhances our dmg with Fire type abilities, First Spire increase our critical chance. If your not using them at the same time you are drastically hurting your burn.

And yes it can not hurt to ask for a mana decrease. Which is what I asked Eli for. I would be more grateful if he took the type 3 idea to heart and made that happen so that we can continue to get type 3s for our Spear spells to come.

[qibrme]

Cal, you should absolutely be using First Spire DURING Fire Core. Fire Core enhances our dmg with Fire type abilities, First Spire increase our critical chance. If your not using them at the same time you are drastically hurting your burn.

Hey Pie no showing Calebe the secret hand shake!

Now he is gonna start beating me on parses

Sued...

[Piemastaj]

Got word back from Eli. Basically said the sustained loss is intended so we can get the burst increase we asked for. This was strictly for our Burst side (which is the only thing we did ask for), which it will increase. I replied back seeing if we can't get this change rectified as we move forward in the next expansion (ie: our next spear will be lower mana cost so our sustained goes back up to where it should be).

Also, Eli said we should be seeing more increases. No time-table or of what variety but they will be coming. I told him we are more then willing to help him with #s and such so both sides are happy by the changes made.