The Magician's Tower

Enkel wrote:Honestly I find it impossible to say 30% increase to survivability. I don't even know how you would quantify the difference in survivability. The rampage from Aaryonar shouldn't make a difference in my mind. When we did ToV I would play in third person, and have my back turned. I would rotate the camera to see Aaryonar. I used my pets as a gauge for max melee range and never got hit.

For AE, if a AE is going to kill you its going to you kill. The 5k hp you get won't make a 30% difference most likely. If your healers are doing their job then you should be healed through AE easily. To each their own. Personally I like to achieve the highest dps possible, and I utilize all my AA to keep myself alive in a pinch. The dps difference between us, based on spell damage, is only several thousand, the rest would come down to skill and understanding of the class. So augs are not the be all end all, and are probably the best way at the moment to customize your character, but I do prefer spell damage.

Did some parses just out of curiousity, I'd previously done some very basic parsing which is where my figure of 2-3% of overrall damage came from. I did some more today, of decent duration. Here are the numbers I got parsing varying levels of spell damage, these are rain/rain/spear/spear, for about 20 minutes, all burns, no support, with glyph of the cataclysm. @ 100ms multibinding using autofire.

With full & perfect support, & the RNG, & the stars aligning. You could get about a 3% dps difference from an increase of 200 Spell damage... That assumes you can double this dps with great support classes ( as you've done ), then factors the pets dps to come to a percentage of total dps...

But after twincasts have run out, & you've switched to using gargs, that's quickly going to come down to about 1% of your overrall damage, 1.5% at best. from +200 spell damage.

just fyi, thought it was interesting.

I think the parse is very interesting, and very close to the results I have got. I just like maximizing my personal dps, nothing wrong with using hp augs, but I think the gains are very similar in survivability and damage. One thing that works for me though is that I always have an amazing druid healer. The two druids that I usually get will keep me alive through almost everything, so I don't need the extra health. I also have a very good shaman friend in the guild, and he, from time to time, puts me on his extended target , so I, more than others, don't need the extra health.

Kind of my point of view as well Enkel, I am DPS, therefore I should shoot for more DPS. If you are getting good healing, the max hp won't matter. If it is a wipe/reset situation (aka you fade/gate or die), doesn't matter to me because I not worried about xp loss. Very few situations where I can find 5K more hps would save me, but that is just my opinion. Note I do use a light powersource because I do not think the 2.5K hp loss and hits to resist worth 800 mana gain. So I don't totall ignore survival, but to each their own.

Fleiss wrote:Kind of my point of view as well Enkel, I am DPS, therefore I should shoot for more DPS. If you are getting good healing, the max hp won't matter. If it is a wipe/reset situation (aka you fade/gate or die), doesn't matter to me because I not worried about xp loss. Very few situations where I can find 5K more hps would save me, but that is just my opinion. Note I do use a light powersource because I do not think the 2.5K hp loss and hits to resist worth 800 mana gain. So I don't totall ignore survival, but to each their own.

use the xorbb ps for extra spell dmg!

Thanasis wrote:

Fleiss wrote:Kind of my point of view as well Enkel, I am DPS, therefore I should shoot for more DPS. If you are getting good healing, the max hp won't matter. If it is a wipe/reset situation (aka you fade/gate or die), doesn't matter to me because I not worried about xp loss. Very few situations where I can find 5K more hps would save me, but that is just my opinion. Note I do use a light powersource because I do not think the 2.5K hp loss and hits to resist worth 800 mana gain. So I don't totall ignore survival, but to each their own.

use the xorbb ps for extra spell dmg!

I've had no luck in getting them to drop.

Cielli, did you rule out weapon procs/aug procs? Also, since the parse did not use Salvo it must be taken with a grain of salt. A twincasted salvo is 10 hits, which is much higher than the 2 hits from spear. With those two variables taken into account I personally can't see getting the 5k extra hp over SD, but again still my personal opinion. Salvo is our highest dps spell in burn, period. An accurate gauge cannot be found without using it.

Enkel wrote:Cielli, did you rule out weapon procs/aug procs? Also, since the parse did not use Salvo it must be taken with a grain of salt. A twincasted salvo is 10 hits, which is much higher than the 2 hits from spear. With those two variables taken into account I personally can't see getting the 5k extra hp over SD, but again still my personal opinion. Salvo is our highest dps spell in burn, period. An accurate gauge cannot be found without using it.

Spell damage is not a flat number on top of every strike like you're suggesting. It's based on cast time... While Of Many may benefit more from spell damage, the overrall difference in an of many/rain/rain/spear weave would not be dramatically different than rain/rain/spear/spear as I've parsed here.

Take off your arms & parse a .75 second spell ( like broiling sands.. ) With & without One piece of gear.

Using broiling sands ( 0.8 cast time ) I get a benefit of 26 more damage ( from a 37 spell damage item )

Using Rain ( 2.0 cast time ) I get a benefit of 85 more damage x 3 ( from the same 37 spell damage item )
Level 92 Rain gains exactly the same benefit as the lvl 99 rain, despite having half the base damage, so it is only based on cast time.

Using Spear ( 1.8 cast time ) I get a benefit of of 66 damage .

So you can actually calculate the difference here...

Using my parse with a weave of

Rain = 255
Rain = 255
Spear = 66
Spear = 66

Vs. a weave of

Of Many = 130
Rain = 255
Rain = 255
Spear = 66

My Parse weave = 642
Of Many weave = 706

a 10% difference ( 10 % of 3% = .03% )

I am very aware of the nature of SD, but not counting our highest dps doesn't give the most accurate of parses/ indicators. Parsing salvo can be a pain, but to get the most accurate understanding of SD, and the benefit it gives to us, salvo would have to be parsed.

It might be based on cast time, but regardless it is a flat, set, amount on each wave or strike. This is best seen with our fire rain, Rain of Blistersteel. The benefit to salvo is greater than that of something like sands. Its why its a shame that salvo is now 5 strikes instead of its former 9.

Taken from Beimieth from the EQ forums.

Spell Damage also uses a wonky formula:

Using a float value "x"

1) Find which is higher Refresh Time or Recast Time.

2) Add whichever is higher from 1) to the Cast Time of the spell to get the Total Cast Time

3) Use one of 3 formulas to find x:

a) If total cast time < 2.5 Then x = 0.25
b) If total cast time > 2.5 And < 7 Then x = 0.167 * (totalcasttime - 1)
c) If total cast time >= 7 then x = 1 * totalcasttime / 7

4) Multiply your worn spell damage by x

5) Truncate the result