Raid DPS - How can we fix it?

[Piemastaj]

Problem with just a magic based clash is not every guild has 9 pets on the mob. Not to mention it also draws the problem where Fire Core does not increase Magic based abilities, so we would have to be tied to a bard then. Otherwise the magic clash might be lower DPs then say bolt which it would replace on a burn situation (ie: with Fire Core running). Would require parsing to prove it right or wrong, but putting some of our eggs into a magic basket when we can not personally enhance it will hurt us.

[Savil]

Trying to make us depend on magic for DPS increases is IMHO a major mistake.

Savil

[Failcon]

I agree magic based nukes would hurt us, though a magic class for non-fire fights would still be great!

[Magebaggery]

Ok just a few idea's I have had to address Mage Raid based DPS without increasing solo power.

---Pet Based Raid DPS Ideas---
Idea 1: Weaken the Pet, Debuff the Mob
A pet buff like Iceflame line, does not stack with Iceflame line (pick one or the other!)
--Reduce Pet Mitigation by 50%
--Add Proc: Elemental Weakness

--Elemental Weakness
--Debuff on mob
--Effect increase spell damage by xx% (tuned for the increase in dps needed)
--Limit Spell: Spear of Magma (allowed)
--Limit Spell: Bolt of Rhyolite (allowed)

Idea 2:Strengthen the Pet DPS, Weaken the Pet Survivability
Spell: Unstable Construct (replace Burnout buff)
Destabilizes a summoned elemental, increasing its forms of damage output but decreasing its likelihood of survival.

--Increase Pet Haste (str, dmg etc [burnount like but much bigger])
--Decrease Pet Survivability (see above)

--Pure Spell DPS raid increase Ideas
These are hard to do without increasing solo power, but let me give it a shot
--AA Raging Servant *special~!*
--Summons a Gargoyle Pet to Assist in the battle, This gargoyle does not depop until the mob Dies, Gargoyle instantly desummons self, will not acquire 2nd target etc.
--Hits for 800 (not very powerful...)
--15 Second Refresh... Multiple Gargoyles are allowed! (1 minute can have 5 gargoyles up!, 2 minute fight 9!)
Longer the fight goes, the higher damage ramps up!

That one can get wild for long fights, probably OP...

Spell: Elemental Sacrifice Cost 1 - Cast Instant - Recast 2 minutes
Sac the Pet for a Boom Boom!
Pet Explodes for 50k dmg on mob (like SK pet sac)
Debuff on Caster (-90% pet power for 1 minute, next pet will be a wussy for next 1 minute)
Buff on Caster: Elemental Gathering (Now that the Caster is not channeling his/her elemental powers to hold a pet, they have full control in their spells)
--Increase Spell Damage by 50%
--Increase Mana Cost by 20%


This one increases Solo Power, but I like it.
Spell: Maelstrom of the Elements Cost 7000 Cast Time 5.0 Seconds (approx AFTER focus) Recast 30 seconds
Slot 1: Fickle Flare
Slot 2: Spear of Magma
Slot 3: Bolt of Rhyolite
Slot 4: Clash of Many

I can come up with MANY solutions to fix DPS of mages overall, the problem is most of them will increase both aspects (solo and raid).

Overall I would think the pet needs a slight nerf, and mage spell power needs improvement.

Things I would like to see... Rain Spells that are not AE, single target 4x wave. 12-18 second recast.

An Inefficient manawise, mass damage form of spellcasting (or pet casting for that matter!) for those 60 sec - 90 sec burst burn fights.

[svenalo]

Reducing the effectiveness of the pet is out and out bad. NEVER should we harm the pet to boost our DPS or any other aspect of the class. I am opposed to ANYTHING that is designed in that manner.

[Sunlace]

... Overall I would think the pet needs a slight nerf ....

Calling for pet nerf on these boards should be bannable offense.

[Magebaggery]

There lies the problem of why the mage stagnated however.

The Pet being able to hold named mobs while the mage blasts and raging gargoyles it to death is why mage DPS stagnated.

We are exploring ideas to increase Raid DPS, but Devs have already stated that they don't want to increase the solo power of the mage. ANYTHING that increases the Pet offensively that does not decrease the pet defensively, will increase solo power of the mage.

I was looking at ideas closer to a slider, you ramp up the pet to gain 50% more offense, and he loses 50% of his defense (more of a stance) through buffing, NOTHING permanent to the pet.

How often do you use your pet to tank in raid encounters? Would you be willing to sacrifice the defensive capabilities of your pet, through a Pet Buff, that increases its offensive capabilities greatly but diminishes said defensive capabilities? Think of it as channeling the pet as a pure bruiser, big muscles, hits very hard, but has no form of protection, it throws haymakers and hellfire missiles, but has a glass jaw.

[Piemastaj]

Mage DPs did not stagnate because of garg pets. That is laughable to even think of. Mages have stagnated because of mercs. Even though every class gets the same benefit as us with them, we have basically no risk in the eyes of people watching when we pet tank. Which has led to numerous nerf mages threads on EQlive. It is possibly the sole reason why we are in as bad of shape as we are, the other would be a fail class correspondant.

There is no reason why we should hurt our pet to increase our DPS. Tanking shouldn't even be brought up, because unless your abusing mechanics (hello SS2) or your wiping your pet isn't taking hits. Which is what the devs fail to realize.

[Danille]

There lies the problem of why the mage stagnated however.

The Pet being able to hold named mobs while the mage blasts and raging gargoyles it to death is why mage DPS stagnated.

We are exploring ideas to increase Raid DPS, but Devs have already stated that they don't want to increase the solo power of the mage. ANYTHING that increases the Pet offensively that does not decrease the pet defensively, will increase solo power of the mage.

I was looking at ideas closer to a slider, you ramp up the pet to gain 50% more offense, and he loses 50% of his defense (more of a stance) through buffing, NOTHING permanent to the pet.

How often do you use your pet to tank in raid encounters? Would you be willing to sacrifice the defensive capabilities of your pet, through a Pet Buff, that increases its offensive capabilities greatly but diminishes said defensive capabilities? Think of it as channeling the pet as a pure bruiser, big muscles, hits very hard, but has no form of protection, it throws haymakers and hellfire missiles, but has a glass jaw.

Seems a bit extreme to be going down the path of inciting mage hostility by your 1st and 2nd post on our forums?

[qibrme]

Seems a bit extreme to be going down the path of inciting mage hostility by your 1st and 2nd post on our forums?

Me thinks Magebaggery would be well advised to spend some time reading old post where magicians new to these boards suggested (with good intentions) nerfing pets.

Magebaggery, that issue has been debated, killed, ressurected, exorcised, demonized, and been reduced to ashes from the nuclear fallout then scattered across the many oceans of other worlds.

Nerfing pets has been tried and just won't work in and class improvement suggestion here.

Now if you can get by that point, I am sure you will have a lot more people willing to debate the pros and cons of any other constructive suggestions you might want to put forward.


Sued...