Nerf: Underfoot Sympathetic Alleviation augments

Anything EQ related that doesn't fall into another category goes here.
User avatar
Malleria
Arch Mage
Posts: 327
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 5:18 pm

Re: Nerf: Underfoot Sympathetic Alleviation augments

Post by Malleria »

Voragath wrote:
Gnomeland wrote: (remove enrage? why? not that I'm complaining about no mob enrage, but wouldn't the time be better spent on something else?)... It's a mess.
What? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on not understanding what led to this change. This wasn't just a fly-by-night change because it's been in the works for a few years now. There was a monk ability, to start, that was supposed to allow them to do extra damage when mobs went ape but had the unintended side effect of making them immune to it. Well, now, that's OP so they gave a similar ability to nearly everyone in HoT to shore up the disparity. Well, there was still a disparity AND it wasn't intended at all to make people immune and they can't fix the ability to make you not immune without also making you lose the dps. In the end, the only true fix and to make everyone equally immune, was just to remove enrage. The main use for the ability can then still stand and no one can complain about one class being immune to rage when others aren't. Better, enrage has all but lost it's usefulness. And I hardly think this took much code time. It took them 2 (or more) years dinking around with that one stupid ability trying to make it work right on enrage and they never could figure it out. So, there you go. If you wanna be mad, be mad that they dinked around for 2 years rather than just get rid of enrage, which was asked for 2 years ago as a fix.
Mm, kinda. Several melee classes had an AA that I think goes back as far as SoF (though it may be SoD), that was supposed to increase the damage they do when they riposte. It had the unforseen side effect of making them immune to ripostes, and thus immune to enrage. Bards and zerkers got mad during Underfoot cause they were the only melee classes (I think, might be one more) that didn't have this immunity. So Elidroth in his melee-loving wisdom decided he'd give every melee class an AA that makes them immune to it.

Some of us asked what about pet classes? Afterall, pets suffer possibly the most. We can't just turn attack off on our swarms. Enter multitudes of melee screaming "omg you can just back your pet off lololol so lazy!". To which it was correctly pointed out... so can they (turn off attack). Anyway! Elidroth said he'd look into it. He offered an activated AA that would temporarily give this immunity to pets. Not very useful, but meh. He later came back and said it couldn't be done (after ignoring us for a few weeks - afterall, that makes problems go away right?). It was also correctly pointed out that leaving enrage in after the melee were given the additional immunity was transforming it into an anti-pet mechanic. Clearly the original intention of enrage was not to punish pet classes. So they waited and waited and waited. And now that it's been long enough that he can make people believe it was his own idea, they're going to remove enrage.
User avatar
Mindrix
Conjurer
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 4:52 pm

Re: Nerf: Underfoot Sympathetic Alleviation augments

Post by Mindrix »

Malleria wrote:
Voragath wrote:
Gnomeland wrote: (remove enrage? why? not that I'm complaining about no mob enrage, but wouldn't the time be better spent on something else?)... It's a mess.
What? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on not understanding what led to this change. This wasn't just a fly-by-night change because it's been in the works for a few years now. There was a monk ability, to start, that was supposed to allow them to do extra damage when mobs went ape but had the unintended side effect of making them immune to it. Well, now, that's OP so they gave a similar ability to nearly everyone in HoT to shore up the disparity. Well, there was still a disparity AND it wasn't intended at all to make people immune and they can't fix the ability to make you not immune without also making you lose the dps. In the end, the only true fix and to make everyone equally immune, was just to remove enrage. The main use for the ability can then still stand and no one can complain about one class being immune to rage when others aren't. Better, enrage has all but lost it's usefulness. And I hardly think this took much code time. It took them 2 (or more) years dinking around with that one stupid ability trying to make it work right on enrage and they never could figure it out. So, there you go. If you wanna be mad, be mad that they dinked around for 2 years rather than just get rid of enrage, which was asked for 2 years ago as a fix.
Mm, kinda. Several melee classes had an AA that I think goes back as far as SoF (though it may be SoD), that was supposed to increase the damage they do when they riposte. It had the unforseen side effect of making them immune to ripostes, and thus immune to enrage. Bards and zerkers got mad during Underfoot cause they were the only melee classes (I think, might be one more) that didn't have this immunity. So Elidroth in his melee-loving wisdom decided he'd give every melee class an AA that makes them immune to it.

Some of us asked what about pet classes? Afterall, pets suffer possibly the most. We can't just turn attack off on our swarms. Enter multitudes of melee screaming "omg you can just back your pet off lololol so lazy!". To which it was correctly pointed out... so can they (turn off attack). Anyway! Elidroth said he'd look into it. He offered an activated AA that would temporarily give this immunity to pets. Not very useful, but meh. He later came back and said it couldn't be done (after ignoring us for a few weeks - afterall, that makes problems go away right?). It was also correctly pointed out that leaving enrage in after the melee were given the additional immunity was transforming it into an anti-pet mechanic. Clearly the original intention of enrage was not to punish pet classes. So they waited and waited and waited. And now that it's been long enough that he can make people believe it was his own idea, they're going to remove enrage.
Enrage was badly coded in the first place. It was added to make Melee honest, but it took them years to not cause random server crashes. They basically couldn't modify about 1/2 the melee code because it blocks enrage. Trying to avoid that issue with Strikethrough ended up breaking Fortitude & Weaponshield for 6 months. They finally caved and gave all Melee DPS immunity. So, it's just the final step in the process. It's actually a solid change and logical conclusion and probably made a Coder's day when they decided to do it.
Image
User avatar
Mindrix
Conjurer
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 4:52 pm

Re: Nerf: Underfoot Sympathetic Alleviation augments

Post by Mindrix »

Voragath wrote:
Gnomeland wrote:I don't think we'll be able to sort this all out, but what is our best chance for getting something done? I don't want to spend the next year (or longer) like this...
Parses sent to devs. Us raising our collective voices just like BL's, pallies, and bards have done. We'll also need some backup support like the BL's did and we have some of that. Devs claim they don't respond to "mob rule" but it's clear they have been or we would not be suffering as we are at the moment. Top that all off with one big heapin' pile o' patience.
BST's pets didn't get fixed for 2 years. I even explained exactly the problem to the Devs, but no one ever bothered to fix it. (The Beta data was never applied to the Live-version of the Data; it was blatantly obvious that the "build" data they use to making the pet templates was all that was active on Live. But no one wanted to listen)

Paladins only got a lot of DPS because Elidroth & Aristo didn't realize what they were doing.

Bard personal DPS still really hasn't caught up with where they were before the nerf during UF.

And for CL reps for those classes: Bards have good representation, BLs have none and the Paladin's are idiots. Doesn't really matter, they just got the "love" this expansion, sort of. BSTs will get nerfed before too long.
Image
User avatar
Voragath
Grand Summoner
Posts: 1165
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:32 pm

Re: Nerf: Underfoot Sympathetic Alleviation augments

Post by Voragath »

Yeah, it did take bards a long ass time too. They spent, 5 years (?), pushing and working with devs trying to get the song mods fixed so they could work on the other stuff. However, we have been broken for 1 year and we got really broken this expansion, so I'm still holding out hope that we can make a leap with the next expansion (that'll be two broken years by next expansion). A long wait but if we work hard and lean on the devs maybe, just maybe, something will happen. And about the time it takes to get a leap.
Image
User avatar
Baramos
Conjurer
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:58 am

Re: Nerf: Underfoot Sympathetic Alleviation augments

Post by Baramos »

Wow.

Last expansion had the symp aug which was the first thing that had made me say !!!!! for a long time. Gotta have that one. I took the year off of raiding for Underfoot for a few reasons, but I made sure I got the augs Levi and the Shroom, and figured OK, level up and fill your AAs and head back to the raid scene when Thule hits.

I've quit a couple of times in the last 3 years, but EQ inertia up to what is now almost 12 years kept me coming back almost immediately.

This aug nerf is the latest of a series of "WOOPS", and it's the last straw. OMM, Green Pet, Marketplace snafus, Pet Canni, all the hoohah about the Ranger business, the SK business. Woops. Woops. WOOPSIE. Non-scaling spells. The stance line gone to extinction. Our pet aura changed YEARS after the fact. The Rallos exploit crap. WOOOPS. I could go on but what's the point.

I'm done. Canceled. For good.

If anyone sees Yitamin I have an Earring of Living Slime and a Bottomless Box to give him. He seems to have vanished - been looking for him for over a month.

Later. Have fun, folks. What a wild ride.

Baramos, Uthvuud, Bazmatu, Tater, Skymir, Ternada

Mages of
Fennin, Druzzil, Bristlebane, Stormhammer, Saryrn, Firiona Vie
Mythic Legion, Sphaera, Descendents, Public, Fire and Fury, Planar Campaign, Silent Resurgence, Andy Zaffron
Image
User avatar
Canamar
Newbie
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:20 pm

Re: Nerf: Underfoot Sympathetic Alleviation augments

Post by Canamar »

Has this nerf gone into effect? I have been trying to get my mage up to snuff and the augs/shawl were next on my list as HoT seems rather mana intensive. I had a necro friend link the one he got from convo called leviathan something or rather and it didn't have the spell req on it as of yesterday. Or is it just for us poor sorry souls who haven't gotten them yet so those that have em are grandfathered?

Also, and this may be a moot point depending on the answer to the first question, but if I have equipment or multiple augs with the same proc do I have double the chance for it to proc? Not different levels of the proc but the same exact one. Any help would be appreciated, thanks
User avatar
svenalo
Arch Magus
Posts: 665
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:35 am

Re: Nerf: Underfoot Sympathetic Alleviation augments

Post by svenalo »

Yes it's in effect. Don't bother getting the UF augs...but the shawl is still working as far as I know.
User avatar
dorfillya
Conjurer
Posts: 214
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:17 pm

Re: Nerf: Underfoot Sympathetic Alleviation augments

Post by dorfillya »

svenalo wrote:Yes it's in effect. Don't bother getting the UF augs...but the shawl is still working as far as I know.

I would still think that one UF augment is in order, since it still fires from our 86 bolt spell. I sometimes use a audio trigger to let me know when the UF augment fires, and using one augment (the one from Fungalshock) and using hot button casting of servant pet-spear-bolt-fickle, I get around 5 augment procs a minute. I have been toying around with using servant pet-spear-86 bolt-81 bolt, but still only get about 5 procs per minute of the UF augment.
User avatar
svenalo
Arch Magus
Posts: 665
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:35 am

Re: Nerf: Underfoot Sympathetic Alleviation augments

Post by svenalo »

It depends on what your weave is, and how many HoT sympathetics you have. If you get the Fear Itself weapon and the 2 HoT augs, then you are out of room for the UF one, but if I understand all the analysis right you then have a much higher chance of proc'ing on all the spells and not just the bolt. Someone posted analysis/stats on all this over on the SOE forums in one of the many threads on the topic... If I recall, the best combo post-nerf was the HoT raid 2hr with mana return (something that dropped in HoT raid tier 3) aug'd with both the HoT augs... I noticed a big difference having the Fear Itself weapon and 2 HoT augs instead of one HoT aug and the UF one you mentioned, but then my weave is RS Fickle Jolt Spear on raids most of the time, and moloing/soloing I don't do a weave and instead cast single spells as needed for the situation.
User avatar
Malleria
Arch Mage
Posts: 327
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 5:18 pm

Re: Nerf: Underfoot Sympathetic Alleviation augments

Post by Malleria »

I'll be keeping one of the UF sympathetic's on for now. With my weave always containing bolt and not exceeding 4 spells in a rotation, my parses are showing I get a bit more total mana back using the one UF aug with the Shawl, rather than going all HoT.

Currently I'm running Shawl - Sympathetic Alleviation VII - Alleviating Burst IV x2

The Shawl sadly seems to be the last effect with a chance to trigger. By deliberately reducing the number of times Alleviating Burst triggers (by only using 2) I'm getting more Shawl procs. And if the UF aug triggers on bolt its bonus.



PS: Bara, i'll take that earring off your hands if you don't want it ;)
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot] and 46 guests