Naggy/Vox Item Cheatsheet

[Merlaina]

I actually think it's a little ridiculous that raiders have to do as much as they do to get raid gear. First you have all the keying/flagging, which sometimes has bottlenecks, though instancing has helped reduce this over the years. Then when you DO finish a raid, you get what, 4-6 pieces of loot for 54 people to fight over? Not to mention the fact that you just managed to organize that many people and keep most of them online for however long the raid lasts. I know as a parent with a 9-5 job I likely have a different lifestyle than the average raider, but for Pete's sake I think just being able to organize that many people for a multi-hour play session is a feat unto itself. And never mind that you will likely have to fail the raid many times to figure out its quirks before you succeed.

Personally I think raids should be like the DODH group tasks, when at the end everyone gets something. Or get to pick from several somethings. Not being a raider myself I can't know firsthand, but I'd imagine running the same raid 15-20 times a month would get pretty smurf boring. I know if I had to run the creator mission from DoN one more time my head would implode, and I only ran it enough times to get my pet focus ranged item from there.

I understand from the development standpoint raids take a fair bit of resources to create, and they want to make sure they get a lot of mileage out of them. If raids were as I would like to see them people could run the same raid 13 times and be fully geared from that raid, and that would be too little time/effort to keep raiders occupied until the next expansion. Maybe in a way they were on the right track with these monster missions. Create a new currency, one that's NO TRADE, that you get only from running raids, and then have the raids mobs drop two or three items but everyone in the raid gets some of said currency to use at a raid-gear adventure merchant. Maybe 2-3 raids worth needed per piece of gear.

Ok, enough stream of consciousness game designing... work is over, time to go get the kid.

[Darkenr]

I actually think it's a little ridiculous that raiders have to do as much as they do to get raid gear. First you have all the keying/flagging, which sometimes has bottlenecks, though instancing has helped reduce this over the years. Then when you DO finish a raid, you get what, 4-6 pieces of loot for 54 people to fight over? Not to mention the fact that you just managed to organize that many people and keep most of them online for however long the raid lasts. I know as a parent with a 9-5 job I likely have a different lifestyle than the average raider, but for Pete's sake I think just being able to organize that many people for a multi-hour play session is a feat unto itself. And never mind that you will likely have to fail the raid many times to figure out its quirks before you succeed.

Personally I think raids should be like the DODH group tasks, when at the end everyone gets something. Or get to pick from several somethings. Not being a raider myself I can't know firsthand, but I'd imagine running the same raid 15-20 times a month would get pretty smurf boring. I know if I had to run the creator mission from DoN one more time my head would implode, and I only ran it enough times to get my pet focus ranged item from there.

I understand from the development standpoint raids take a fair bit of resources to create, and they want to make sure they get a lot of mileage out of them. If raids were as I would like to see them people could run the same raid 13 times and be fully geared from that raid, and that would be too little time/effort to keep raiders occupied until the next expansion. Maybe in a way they were on the right track with these monster missions. Create a new currency, one that's NO TRADE, that you get only from running raids, and then have the raids mobs drop two or three items but everyone in the raid gets some of said currency to use at a raid-gear adventure merchant. Maybe 2-3 raids worth needed per piece of gear.

Ok, enough stream of consciousness game designing... work is over, time to go get the kid.

Well said on the difficulty of what raiders actually do need to go through, but it will fall on mostly deaf ears for the most part. The only problem with the kind of gearing system you're talking about though is it just sounds like people would gear up way too quickly with that sort of system. The currency given to everyone as a reward at the end is a great idea though, and I REALLY hope SoE will do something similar to the naggy/vox raids where you go to the reward window after a completed event to claim a currency reward so a person can save up for an upgrade. I think it should be implemented, but not to be able to buy an item every 2-3 raids unless they want to introduce 10 tiers of gear for people to work through which just plain won't happen. I would think that if a system like that were to be implemented it should be one item every 10-15 raids worth of currency if they kept the current item drops from the end named of the event. But of course the same thing should be done for groupers as well, giving them a currency for completing tasks in the same fashion because it would be unfair for raiders to have a guaranteed item every so many raids while groupers would still be held back by PH camping.

[Ghem and Boo]

Doesn't really matter anymore; Absor came out tonight and posted that the gear will be nerfed.

Hurray. Cry-baby elitist win again.

[Merlaina]

But of course the same thing should be done for groupers as well, giving them a currency for completing tasks in the same fashion because it would be unfair for raiders to have a guaranteed item every so many raids while groupers would still be held back by PH camping.

But in many instances you do have this for groupers... LDoN, the tasks for Faycitum in DSH, Orum and Doubloons from TBS, Chronos from SoD... most of those things are group tasks/instances and reward you with currency to buy gear/spells from that expansion. It might not be the best group gear available from the expansion, but if you run enough of them you are guaranteed gear, and at least some of it will likely be an upgrade. I just think this system should be expanded to raiders, which they sort of did with the MMs, except their flaw was to make the group/raid currencies the same. Give raids a unique no trade currency with a raid store to purchase from, and make it less about the drops and more about the store.

Now if you're saying that the best group gear from an expansion should come from a store as well, well, maybe. It would prevent camp bottlenecks (unless the task is kill named mob X). I think the way they've done it in SoD is good though, in that the more you go through the progression the more items become available for purchase. And lots of good items are very reasonably, dare I even say cheaply, priced (pet focus augs). But not being in that level range yet (still working on Oceangreen progression) I haven't really tried to compare high end group dropped SoD armor to what's available in the store.

[Falino-Luclin]

I would love to see another points style expansion for group gear. I enjoyed TBS very much because every time you did a mission you felt like you accomplished something, and you didn't have to fight over camps and hope the named you want spawns and drops the item you want.

It seems to me like the three points based expansions (LDoN, DoN, TBS) were three of the best grouping expansions.

[Kendrick_Prexus]

Sorry that I've angered you so much, it wasn't my intention.

My post wasnt directed at you so much as the elite 1% of EQ'rs who constantly b*tch and moan on the EQ Live Forums. Heaven forbid a group player should get one peice of gear that is even close to raid quality.

The average group player grinding these out will take months to get several peices of gear. We ran two missions last night and it took 3 hours. The solB one and the lguk one. I ended up with 7 brews for the night because I got lucky on a roll and won a random chest loot to sell back for 5 brews. So out of the 10 players that were in those two missions two of us ended the night with 7 brews and the other 8 ended the night with 2 brews.

Everyone posts about the uber 6 boxing toon that nails down 18 brews per day and will have full gear from this in 2 weeks.
I call BS, that player isnt the norm, the average grouper who will use this gear will be lucky to have one raid piece after a month of work. Thats one raid lvl piece that is 80% of a tower piece and thats if they can find a naggy/vox open raid. I have been on 2 so far and both have wiped, one with 28 players and one with 18.

Some of you are mad because this gear gets so close to end game raid gear of the current expansion, but that has always been the norm. Group gear from the new expansions always get close to end game raid gear from the previous expansion. These missions were a precursor to UF going live.

[Merlaina]

I would love to see another points style expansion for group gear. I enjoyed TBS very much because every time you did a mission you felt like you accomplished something, and you didn't have to fight over camps and hope the named you want spawns and drops the item you want.

It seems to me like the three points based expansions (LDoN, DoN, TBS) were three of the best grouping expansions.

I'm inclined to agree, though the repetitiveness of some of these (LDoN in particular) got old. I don't know if it'd be possible the way the game is coded, but I'd like to see algorithmically generated content. They did this a bit with LDoN, but the maps were still limited in number. Placing named in random locations is a start, but I'd like to see the zones themselves be dynamically created. While I like having maps for all zones available to me, sometimes it's fun to not have a map and be forced to learn your way around on your own.

[Vaddok]

I am so sick of hearing how hard all you raiders work. I am personal friends with a druid in TR and I can tell you she knows crap about most of the raid events they do. There are maybe 5 people that tell everyone else what to do. We started playing at the same time 7 years ago. Due to having a job and a life I cannot keep a full raid schedule but I guarantee you I know 5 times more about the mechanics of EQ than she does. So stop with the elitist I work harder crap because thats what it is, crap.


Don't tell me about the massive time investment into getting flagged either. I am flagged for Void E and have all but 2 pieces from being in all T3 gear. I have over 2000 aa's. I have done the augs from Kithicor and Oceargreen. I am using the best group available weapon for monks the Dire Cestii and last fabled season I got lucky on a pickup raid and got a set of Fabled Battle Fist yet I am still maybe 50% of the dps of a raid monk. You should try getting thru Murdunks Last stand with only groupable weapons for DPS. If I remember right the Solteris weapons for monks had a better ratio than the top group weapons this expansiom had and how far back was that again ? So if we are gonna compare gear lets compare all the gear.

As far as HP yes I am roughly 70% of the top monks on my server but I do not agree that should be considered close enough. If I remember right I pay the same subscrition fee as the raiders and I probably have more play time per week than 70 % of the people that raid but I cannot always do it at a certain time.

[Merlaina]

I am so sick of hearing how hard all you raiders work.
...
As far as HP yes I am roughly 70% of the top monks on my server but I do not agree that should be considered close enough. If I remember right I pay the same subscrition fee as the raiders and I probably have more play time per week than 70 % of the people that raid but I cannot always do it at a certain time.

I'm not saying that raiders necessarily are better than you, or have a better understanding of game mechanics, or anything like that. But part of what it takes to EARN raid gear is organizing many people for extended periods of time, and not just once but many times. Your druid friend may not have the best understanding of game mechanics, but she is either flexible enough in her play schedule or dedicated enough to make it to these raids, follow those orders and do whatever her assigned role is competently.

Getting raid gear has less to do with skill (though skill is helpful) and more to do with organization, leadership, and an available, dedicated player base. I don't doubt I COULD eventually get into a raid guild and have the skills necessary to run the raids, and get the proverbial phat lewtz. But I don't have the time, and I like the people in my current guild, despite them hardly ever being on, too much to leave them. It's not a question of skill as much as choice in play style. There are many excellent groupers out there who won't get raid level loot, despite being perfectly able to excel in raid situations were they in them. But you can't ignore the fact that it takes a serious effort to organize that many people and coordinate them through the complex dance that is a raid. THAT is what the extra reward is for. It's a reward for recruiting, nurturing, and organizing a large group of people over time and getting them to work well together.

[Ottaro]

I'm a group Mag, when SoD came out we were farming Crystallos for essences. We went through all the void progressions to void F and we're all T5 equiped.
I can say i worked just as hard as any raider for my gear. I'm also very happy with my gear, for the content i do i'm at the top of my game.

Notice i said MY game. That because the game i play isn't the same one a Raider plays. Yes it's both EQ but it isn't the same. I log in when i want and leave when i want. The mobs i kill aren't the same either, they don't AE the same things, hit the same strength or have the same HP.

I honnestly can say i'm not affected but this change. Well i am kinda affected, means i won't have to grind through countless MMs (which i hate doing, not my toon, not my spells) to get this stuff. And really, if the gear you have on is stronger the the content your doing, where's the challenge? The fun?