new stuff

[Aumeldarie]

Magician - Spear of Magma has been increased in damage but will be less efficient.

I just wanted to point out how bad this change seems to me. This change makes this spell far less efficient mana wise than the wizzy's ethereals, that includes their big one that at RK2 is over 16k damage with their type 3 aug. I saw at least one person on eqlive raving about how great this is going to be. Here are the numbers please show me how this will help the mage class. These are all the Rk2 numbers. Please correct me if my math is wrong but if I'm correct our spell is already less efficient than the largest wizard Ethereal that is currently over 2500 more damage than ours. Now it's going to cost even more mana per damage. I really don't understand why they would do this or how this could be seen as a good change. In the raid game we already have the worst mana recovery of any of the pure casters. This will just hurt us more imo.

Mage Spell

Spell Damage Mana Ratio

Current Spear of Magma rk2~~13520~~2695~~.19933

Changed Spear of Magma rk2~~ 14271~~ 2999~~ .21015

Wizard Spells

Ethereal Inferno Rk2 +type 3 aug~~ 16078~~ 3140~~ .19529

Ethereal Glacation + type 3 aug~~ 15141 ~~ 2716~~ .17938

[Piemastaj]

The only thing this does is increase our burst. Basically we got a minor burst increase for a huge mana increase. So it really only hurts us in the sustained, and frankly if your burning your not worried about mana, if your worried about mana it is not a burn fight.

I asked repeatedly for us to get a type 3 spear augment (never once asked for a mana increase on spear, only a dmg increase on it), and repeatedly never got an answer on it. So apprently it seems that our spear spell is too good for an augment, but not good enough on over all dmg so it needed an increase in both mana and dmg. This increase should have been only in a type 3 aug form, messing with our mana costs this late into an expansion is wrong imho.

Altho to play devils advocate here, we never once asked about sustained so us bitching about getting a Burst increase is kind of dis-heartening to the devs who are giving us what we wanted. I am happy we got the burst increase, I just think it should have been in a type 3 aug.

[Aumeldarie]

Trust me I get that. I want an increase in burst but for the cost of mana that they are making us pay the increase should be bigger. If they are going to make us pay more mana per damage than wizards then ours should be much closer in damage to the wizard nukes and it's still going to fall almost 2k short of their big one. I didn't post the ratio's on teh eqlive boards because I didn't want people to think I'm trying to get wizard nukes nerfed but I wanted to point out how messed up this seems to me.

[Adonhiram]

I was first confused by your numbers, because you divided the mana by the damage values (I prefer divide the damage by the mana values to show the diminushing returns in terms of damage). But you are terribly right unfortunately : for 1 point of mana, old rank 2 Spear did 5.02 points of damage ; new rank 2 Spear will be only 4.76 points of damage for 1 point of mana. That's more than 5% degradation !

[Aumeldarie]

Yeah any way you do it we are getting jipped imo. The wizzy ethereal type 3 gives 1056 damage we aren't even getting that for an increase on the Rk3, that increase is 811, and we have to pay more mana? Doesn't seem right.

[Failcon]

We should all send a pm on forums to Eli, least this is one topic we can agree with! Maybe do it on the same day, a solid front, showing how we feel.

[Piemastaj]

They are already in design lock. IE: nothing can be changed or improved as far as my knowledge goes on the subject. The best thing to do would be parse your sustained #s, check how much mana you use per fight, then send those parsed #s and the mana amounts to Eli. Then when the May patch goes in, do the same with the upgraded #s and show him where we get hit.

I would also stop comparing anything we have to something some1 else has. That is just flirting with nerf action to another class, or showing we are jealous. Hopefully if we get enough feedback together so we can at the very least get the mana cost reduced. For my guild however I need to use glyphs to be competitive on fights and such, so my #s will be very different then other people who don't glyph on the regular (I use lost secrets).

[Aumeldarie]

I would also stop comparing anything we have to something some1 else has. That is just flirting with nerf action to another class, or showing we are jealous.

I would actually encourage people to compare things on our own boards to other classes. This is one way we get new ideas for things that might be good for us. There is a reason I didn't post anything like this on the eqlive forums. I posted them here so that people see the numbers before they post how awesome it is on the in-testing discussion forum.

Also part of the reason we finally got a large nuke was because of the years of mages asking for something comparable to the wizzy Ethereal. Because of this I didn't see anything wrong with the comparison. Like I said I didn't post anything similar to this on the live boards because I don't want another class nerfed. IMO what I posted on our boards doesn't hurt anyone.

[Piemastaj]

I just sent a lengthy PM to Eli showing the dmg to mana differentials and such. Like I said though they are in design lock now so we are probably stuck with this change. Basically asked if we could get the changes reversed and get the dmg made into a type 3 aug, or atleast lower the mana costs on the increase.

Hopefully I will hear something back. I do know that Eli didn't make these changes though he told me Aristo did for our spell.

[Piemastaj]

I would also stop comparing anything we have to something some1 else has. That is just flirting with nerf action to another class, or showing we are jealous.

I would actually encourage people to compare things on our own boards to other classes. This is one way we get new ideas for things that might be good for us. There is a reason I didn't post anything like this on the eqlive forums. I posted them here so that people see the numbers before they post how awesome it is on the in-testing discussion forum.

Also part of the reason we finally got a large nuke was because of the years of mages asking for something comparable to the wizzy Ethereal. Because of this I didn't see anything wrong with the comparison. Like I said I didn't post anything similar to this on the live boards because I don't want another class nerfed. IMO what I posted on our boards doesn't hurt anyone.

Comparing us to wizards and saying we want a bigger nuke like thiers is different then what was done here. I am sorry I should have been more clear. What was done here is actually comparing mana costs and dmg ratios with our spells and wizard spells. That really can not be done because of the various other factors going into how each class is made ( they have different crit mods, they have resist adjusts, their AA discs do different things, they dont have a pet ect).

And also, if you haven't noticed Elidroth does post on our boards and such. And I am sure he reads some of the comments, so posting things like that on here can possibly be just as bad as posting them on EQlive.