Our own worst enemy

[Calebe]

From the mage section of EQLive forums in the Magician section From Elidroth:

The one thing I can tell you guys is.. get on the same page. Both Aristo and I receive daily PMs from various classes, and the one thing we can both agree upon is the mage community can't collectively tell us what they want. I have no less than 15 PMs split almost evenly saying "We want more pet-based DPS not spell-based" and "We want more spell-based DPS not pet-based".

But understand something... Just because you want something, doesn't mean it's reasonable or possible for your class, no matter how many times you ask for it.

That said, both Aristo and I are fully aware that Mages need more DPS.

The devs agree we need more DPS. One dev as said in other threads NON PET BASED. So stop asking for pet based DPS for now, do that in the expansion for the usual upgrades and a tad more would be nice. The thing is we are fighting each other yet again and losing ground. A unified voice is needed for mage DPS now. Burst DPS in particular but sustained DPS increase is welcome as well. Burst by it's very nature when in use will increase sustained as well during that parse or when in use. Upping the damage on spear and bolt, lowering recast times and decreasing the refresh rate would help.

Still good news and bad. This mage infighting is hurting us big time. Yet devs know we need help so a light at the end of the tunnel, MAYBE.

Calebe

[Tacoma2586]

non the less there i guarantee have been Enough PMs from i bet ben/pie/savil for ways to get Burst DPS so devs are idiots. they have the info. they've had the parses. many of which could be done. I have to agree with savil that their idiots. don't care enough for mages and looking like we might get screwed again even with sufficient data for them.

[Falore]

Burst dps from spells. Relying too much on pet dps means we get situationally owned depending on the type of raid (IE can't fully unleash pets on raid targets such as the first creation). I'm guessing the people pushing for pure pet dps are the ones that have never raided. But yes the in-fighting is frustrating, mages have gotten our class nerfed more effectively than outsiders have - which is a big part of why I no longer raid.

Our sustained DPS isn't totally horrible but the fact is big guilds aren't really looking for that, they are looking at the more short term numbers (since most fights are pretty fast these days) Burst DPS, utility, and tank ability are the three big general things people look at in a raid force (across all classes). Our primary focus needs to be spell based burst dps, in conjunction with our mod rods we can be considered a passable raid class if our dps potential is roughly 85ish percent of what say a ranger is currently capable of.

[svenalo]

As I said in the other thread:

"This, imo, is because we don't have a CL or small 'focus group' that presents the one unified voice to the devs, and it has to be someone who the devs actually will respond to. They instead get a barrage from all sorts of sources which just leads to distractions and a steaming pile of dung for the most part."

The dev's post just backs that all up.

[Sillaen]

As I said in the other thread:

"This, imo, is because we don't have a CL or small 'focus group' that presents the one unified voice to the devs, and it has to be someone who the devs actually will respond to. They instead get a barrage from all sorts of sources which just leads to distractions and a steaming pile of dung for the most part."

The dev's post just backs that all up.

That's my take on it too.

[Piemastaj]

I have personally sent 3 pms to eli showing how to FIX our burst. This from ideas on this board and from serverwide. So whoever is pushing pet smurf is smurf us over plz stop they are fine now. Let us get burst fixed then we can work on pets.

Edit: Also have yet to hear back about any of the ideas from either eli or aristo. So obviously pms wont work even if we r split they shuld still respond and atleast say yes or no. Them not responding to us, the coming here and saying well you guys are split yada yada. That is a smurf excuse. The data has been sent to them, the ideas have also been sent to them. They are again acting lazy towards our class, and yet again using another excuse as to why they wont fix us. Eli even said he wants to give us BURST, idk wtf he would listen to any1 else who is passing off pet ideas. He in his self is contradicting. He knows we need a spell form of burst, but is enertaining pet ideas? seriously?

[Voragath]

Since a poll was done a while ago, and Piestro won't be getting to the CC/CL program for another few months, we should just go ahead and set up a point person or two. No one likes Tuli, except Tuli, and Naladani never communicates with us. We should send all of our communications with the devs through our designated point person(s) since the CL program isn't really working at the moment. We'll let Eli and a few others know.

In that poll it was me and, I think, Failcon. I'm still up for it. So unless anyone disagrees with me being an interim CL for us*, I'll send Eli a pm tomorrow or Wednesday and let him know (maybe Aristo and Ngreth also). Apparently they are listening to any Joe Schmo Mage and that is dangerous because any jerk can claim to be a mage and ask for stupid stuff.

I'm cool with two people too. As long as we have someone to filter all our stuff through and show the devs we actually really are focused. We need to turn their attention to one place since the boards show that we seem to be on the same page now. We should post who that person or people are on the live boards as well since not all of those visit here.

*Feel free to PM me or post here if you don't want me in that position or prefer someone else.

[Piemastaj]

Read above. They dont care about our needs. The post by Eli on our boards is just stupid. If the data is sent to them why no feedback? I have only heard back from Eli on the AtA fix and Acute focus fix, nothing about our issues in DPS. Aristo I have heard nothing from. Having an interim title is far from the title of a CL. You would be in the same boat that me, ben, sav and any1 else who is sending devs PMs.

[Voragath]

Eli even said he wants to give us BURST, idk wtf he would listen to any1 else who is passing off pet ideas. He in his self is contradicting. He knows we need a spell form of burst, but is enertaining pet ideas? seriously?

I think he was responding to the broader situation of our class in that thread. The mage thread put up a lot of stuff and the OP was discussing pets and dps unlike the dps thread for all classes. So, as a class as a whole, the groupers aren't going to see the raiding issues so aren't going to focus their attention there, naturally, and would send something else to him. HIs problem is he's not understanding that the groupers can't see the raid issues but raiders can see both group and raid. Once we get a point person up and running, we can, hopefully, circumvent this BS that has cropped up.

The most vocal in our class knows what we need, knows where our issues are, and are pretty much on the same page. Eli, however does not know who those people are. If we put someone forward and say, "this is our representative who will tell you what we, as a class, have issues with and would like to have done" then we can finally start to get our hands dirty.

[Voragath]

No, because of those "15" is me, you, savil, bara, sven, etc. pm'ing him. The vocal majority here are probably the ones on the same page asking for spell stuff and those others are probably random groupers, a vocal minority, or those who only read the eqlive boards.

Put one person up, tell him this person has the info the class has decided on, and to primarily focus on that person.

Off topic slightly and just for fun:
Maybe all those "others" are Tuli's alt accounts =P