NDA Lifted

[Piemastaj]

I did not say you were out for yourself or personally attack you. I said you have a way of looking at things only your way, not doing things only for yourself. Those are 2 completely different things.

Well, if you think of the two as separate, then sorry. I have the two married. My apologies.

As to your mind-set. Your complacency with Fire pet being only buffed with FBO out-DPSing a fully buffed Water. Your claiming to be good at ADPS and you could not figure out how we were losing out with the new Strike change vs the old Clash nuke, even after I spent I want to say over an hour explaining it to you in an IRC chat room with another mage there (Possibly Sven, not 100% sure though). The fact that your dismissing what Savil is saying simply because he is not in-game currently, when in all reality there are enough formulas out there that we would not need to log 1 ounce of game-time to see what a mage's maximum potential is for VoA. The fact that you accused me and other beta mages of not complaining enough in beta about EM 14 earring not being in-game. When I personally was too busy parsing among other things to make sure the game worked properly, and you knew about it from week 2 of beta and failed to tell any1 or even post about it in our class threads so we could voice our opinions on the fact that lower-end guilds got screwed on it. Your whole mind-set comes off strongly as 'well we did not get what we asked for in X, but we got increases in Y so be happy', and to me that is a bad attitude/mind-set. We should not just be happy we got thrown a bone, we should be upset we got ignored again about a crucial issue.

I never accused anyone of anything. I simply asked where was all the foul crying when I made it known that EM 14 was missing.

The fire pet was asked for by the community for a long, long, long time. It's still not a great pet for raids and raid mages will still be using water pet. In groups, sure, it's better than water. Air pet is great solo or off-tank for anything 95 and lower. Earth is a great tank everywhere (and still needs his freaking aggro looked at, grr). So, before fire pet was only good because he did ok dps and didn't need to be buffed and this was in raids. Any other time it was water. Before HoT, it was air-pet all the time unless you had a tank and some cc and then it was water pet all the time. We had TWO useful pets. We now have 4. Earth: tanking nameds and trash greater than 95; Water: raid dps and group dps with lots of great melee buffing; Fire: great group dps and even better to plop out in middle of raid when water pet dies; Air: Great solo pet for mobs 95 or lower. And I still hold that the pets need dps and I will always say that even if they make the pets yank out 100k dps with /pet attack. My stance was that Fire is fine but using him as a benchmark was not going to win Aristo over; and he was not impressed, btw.

I understood where the loss on Strike was. Without taking in crit chance, it's only a modest 2k damage increase over the old and that's an extremely conservative number as I erred on the side of caution with SD and used only flat chance procs. And I am still trying to get Aristo to fix the spell to be like it was. What you didn't understand was that if Aristo flat out refuses to add them back, there needs to be another way to try and recoup the lost damage.

As to Sven. Savil and myself are not upset that Vora is doing CRT. We are both happy that a mage got in there. What is upsetting is seeing a person change their attitude and their vision on issues in such a quick period of time. It is making me think that the kool-aid had something done to it.

My mindset has not changed one bit. And this is funny because everyone who knows me in real life calls me the most bull-headed person they ever met. The only thing that has changed is my approach and my view on the community as a whole. There were things I wasn't aware of going on that has changed how some things have to get done. The reason why sometimes we don't get x but got y is good is because the community doesn't realize how close they came to making sure they got zero. A good example is when the dev says something isn't possible by code. The community pushing for a code fix is just silly because the end result of the idea is implicitly ok'd and we have to find another route; if we don't find another route, we get nothing.

The difference here is I'm willing to adapt to get what we want. Some aren't so willing and want that one approach to work come hell or high water. It won't happen, ever.

So then my hour of talking to you and YOU still not understanding it just magically changed AFTER I posted the 2k DPS numbers? I believe your exact words of the conversation were 'I guess we will have to agree to disagree here' talking about the amount of DPs that could have gotten and was not gotten. Also, I am about 95% sure you said something to the tune of 'It was known about since week 2 of beta where were you guys then?' That is an accusation of sorts.

That still is a piss poor mentality. That is like being fine with a C in school on a project that deserved an A. No1 in their right mind would be happy with that, we shouldn't either. That type of mentality is why we are in the spot we are in. It is by no means a hell or high water, it is a' we are sick of being where we are, and u just did to rogues what we needed done to us, why are we the red-headed step child and get nothing?'. Again, if it is possible to give a class such huge numbers before they actually get their back-loadedness you can not possibly tell me it is too hard for mages to get it done also.

And you can back-track or try to change things around all you want, but at the end of the day I do infact know your trying to change your story around to sound better then what it actually was.

[Savil]

Yet your still unwilling to answer basic questions:

* do you feel mages are where they need to be for DPS vs other casters and vs melee?
* do you feel our mana regen is anywhere NEAR good?
* do you feel you provide your raid guild with solid DPS for the good of the raid? IE when your gone does it make any difference to your guild other than "friendship" issues?
* do you feel mages are mostly around to give mod rods to your guild?
* do you feel most mages are happy with the role they have on raids / groups?
* do you feel that 3 freaking years is pretty much long enough for at least SOME headway to be made on these issues?


What seems to be so hard about answering vora?

Savil

[Voragath]

The fact that you accused me and other beta mages of not complaining enough in beta about EM 14 earring not being in-game. When I personally was too busy parsing among other things to make sure the game worked properly, and you knew about it from week 2 of beta and failed to tell any1 or even post about it in our class threads so we could voice our opinions on the fact that lower-end guilds got screwed on it.

Pulling this out because you are lying and I don't appreciate it. First, there are no class boards on beta and for good reason. Two, I did make the post and Falos and Krazyhuman both responded. Third, you posted in that very same thread (for honesty, it is possible here that PJ just missed it).

[Krazyhuman] em 14 in t3 raid 15in t4 raid no pet ear in t2-1.

[Voragath] No, EM XVI = 16 and is in Tier 4. EM XV = 15 is in Tier 3. There isn't a EM XIV = 14 in raid or group. Highest group is EM XIII = 13 in tier 4 (group).

[Falos] EM XI is highest pet focus for tier 4 groupers. You got my hopes sky high that maybe they upgraded it in the last couple days but i checked and it is still EM XI (equivalent of Convorteum raid ear).

[Vorgath] Oh, yes. Thanks for the correction.

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts ... _id=179325

And I have spoken at least twice to Chandrok about the issue during beta.

[Piemastaj]

The fact that you accused me and other beta mages of not complaining enough in beta about EM 14 earring not being in-game. When I personally was too busy parsing among other things to make sure the game worked properly, and you knew about it from week 2 of beta and failed to tell any1 or even post about it in our class threads so we could voice our opinions on the fact that lower-end guilds got screwed on it.

Pulling this out because you are lying and I don't appreciate it. First, there are no class boards on beta and for good reason. Two, I did make the post and Falos and Krazyhuman both responded. Third, you posted in that very same thread (for honesty, it is possible here that PJ just missed it).

And I have spoken at least twice to Chandrok about the issue during beta.

Well I said threads not forums, which there are class threads. And copy/paste from beta threads is against NDA. So I shall give you that, however the rest of my post is 100% legit. I did miss that, quite possibly because I believe when u posted that the thread got a lot of action. It was not in one of our CLASS THREADS though.

I am modding ur post and this quote to stay with forum rules of SOE. Your post is questionable to say the least in regards to the NDA.

[Voragath]

So then my hour of talking to you and YOU still not understanding it just magically changed AFTER I posted the 2k DPS numbers? I believe your exact words of the conversation were 'I guess we will have to agree to disagree here' talking about the amount of DPs that could have gotten and was not gotten. Also, I am about 95% sure you said something to the tune of 'It was known about since week 2 of beta where were you guys then?' That is an accusation of sorts.

Those words of that convo were regarding whether or not you could figure up all the adps numbers that could have been gained if the extra strikes existed and if that could be rolled into the base numbers. I still maintain that it is possible to do but I'm less sure Aristo is interested in such, now.

I said, where was all the rage from the beta testers when I posted it? That's not an accusation, that's a statement that the beta testers didn't seem to mind it if they knew about it. It's also a question of, "why didn't they rage then?" and it's not snide, I'm dead serious. I would really like to know from beta testers who knew about it, didn't say anything on the forums (not that they had to, just a curiosity thing).

That still is a piss poor mentality. That is like being fine with a C in school on a project that deserved an A. No1 in their right mind would be happy with that, we shouldn't either. That type of mentality is why we are in the spot we are in. It is by no means a hell or high water, it is a' we are sick of being where we are, and u just did to rogues what we needed done to us, why are we the red-headed step child and get nothing?'. Again, if it is possible to give a class such huge numbers before they actually get their back-loadedness you can not possibly tell me it is too hard for mages to get it done also.

Bad analogy here. What I was saying is that the project was gonna get an F then the project person was making a bad case for the A and was still going to get the F; but someone else comes along and gets them the C instead of an F. It is a good mentality to take to be glad you got something that wasn't going to happen at all.

And you can back-track or try to change things around all you want, but at the end of the day I do infact know your trying to change your story around to sound better then what it actually was.

I'm not backtracking any story.

[Voragath]

The fact that you accused me and other beta mages of not complaining enough in beta about EM 14 earring not being in-game. When I personally was too busy parsing among other things to make sure the game worked properly, and you knew about it from week 2 of beta and failed to tell any1 or even post about it in our class threads so we could voice our opinions on the fact that lower-end guilds got screwed on it.

Pulling this out because you are lying and I don't appreciate it. First, there are no class boards on beta and for good reason. Two, I did make the post and Falos and Krazyhuman both responded. Third, you posted in that very same thread (for honesty, it is possible here that PJ just missed it).

And I have spoken at least twice to Chandrok about the issue during beta.

Well I said threads not forums, which there are class threads. And copy/paste from beta threads is against NDA. So I shall give you that, however the rest of my post is 100% legit. I did miss that, quite possibly because I believe when u posted that the thread got a lot of action. It was not in one of our CLASS THREADS though.

I am modding ur post and this quote to stay with forum rules of SOE. Your post is questionable to say the least in regards to the NDA.

I can copy/paste my own threads from beta and NDA was lifted. Put it back and if it magically violates the NDA I'll deal with.

[Savil]

I can't help but notice the fact that questions you don't have a cute way around you ignore. Says a lot really. I'm going to assume you don't have a clue how to answer them. Any mage that plays knows the smurf spot the class is in and the answers to those questions. That was honestly a chance for you to show you did understand and what you were trying to do to fix them.

The fact that we have been in the same spot for 2 + years is just stupid. There really isn't an excuse for the broken promises of the last 2 years but it would have been nice to at least get a few answers. Nice work Mr. CRT.

Savil

[Voragath]

Hey Vorgath, maybe it would help if you made clear when your stating a dev's opinion on a matter.
I get the impression you say "XYZ says no just because..." and in all consecutive posts you just say "we cant/shouldn't ask for this" and people either forget or didn't read your post saying "a dev wants this, or refuses to budge on that..."
Repeating yourself can be a pain, but it makes it clear the difference between what you think and want, and what the devs have told you.

Oh, thanks! I wasn't aware I was doing that. I'll work at doing your suggestion. I also thought about it after reading your post and it is directly a result of me not wanting to repeat myself; I can see where it messes with clarity.

[Piemastaj]

So then my hour of talking to you and YOU still not understanding it just magically changed AFTER I posted the 2k DPS numbers? I believe your exact words of the conversation were 'I guess we will have to agree to disagree here' talking about the amount of DPs that could have gotten and was not gotten. Also, I am about 95% sure you said something to the tune of 'It was known about since week 2 of beta where were you guys then?' That is an accusation of sorts.

Those words of that convo were regarding whether or not you could figure up all the adps numbers that could have been gained if the extra strikes existed and if that could be rolled into the base numbers. I still maintain that it is possible to do but I'm less sure Aristo is interested in such, now.

I said, where was all the rage from the beta testers when I posted it? That's not an accusation, that's a statement that the beta testers didn't seem to mind it if they knew about it. It's also a question of, "why didn't they rage then?" and it's not snide, I'm dead serious. I would really like to know from beta testers who knew about it, didn't say anything on the forums (not that they had to, just a curiosity thing).

That still is a piss poor mentality. That is like being fine with a C in school on a project that deserved an A. No1 in their right mind would be happy with that, we shouldn't either. That type of mentality is why we are in the spot we are in. It is by no means a hell or high water, it is a' we are sick of being where we are, and u just did to rogues what we needed done to us, why are we the red-headed step child and get nothing?'. Again, if it is possible to give a class such huge numbers before they actually get their back-loadedness you can not possibly tell me it is too hard for mages to get it done also.

Bad analogy here. What I was saying is that the project was gonna get an F then the project person was making a bad case for the A and was still going to get the F; but someone else comes along and gets them the C instead of an F. It is a good mentality to take to be glad you got something that wasn't going to happen at all.

And you can back-track or try to change things around all you want, but at the end of the day I do infact know your trying to change your story around to sound better then what it actually was.

I'm not backtracking any story.

Bolded. We already figured out 2 of the ways that could be added to it. The crit chance and focuses also were able to be added to it or else all the nukes would do their minimum DMG. We had discussed about this at length even before this conversation took place (on the class thread to be exact). You are backtracking some at least for the strike part.

So we should be glad we got some Burst, but we can not sustain it for a period of time? The only way to do so is going back to our old way which was no burst at all for decent sustained. But that is also with limited spell upgrades and purely AA upgrades we are relying on to make up for our lack of DPS. Which in HoT did not work out too well for us, unless your guild burned insanely well. Giving a class half of what they need should never be seen as a good thing.

[Voragath]

I can't help but notice the fact that questions you don't have a cute way around you ignore. Says a lot really. I'm going to assume you don't have a clue how to answer them. Any mage that plays knows the smurf spot the class is in and the answers to those questions. That was honestly a chance for you to show you did understand and what you were trying to do to fix them.

The fact that we have been in the same spot for 2 + years is just stupid. There really isn't an excuse for the broken promises of the last 2 years but it would have been nice to at least get a few answers. Nice work Mr. CRT.

Savil

I am not about to respond to everything posted. Nor will I ever. I keep responding when points are to be made or something productive comes of it. I just don't have the time to respond to every last thing anyone posts about, bitches about, asks about, says good things about, or requests.

I also quit responding when: the tone becomes more of bullying/childish than honest discourse, the same tropes are spit out despite being logically shown to be incorrect/flawed, the posts turn into troll posts, I get tired and go to bed, I decide to do something other than read forums, I find a better battle to wage, someone intentionally lies, the poster is far too angry and becomes abusive/borderline abusive in tone, I have to go to class, or an emergency takes me away from my computer. I probably missed quite a few in that list.