Sillaen I would prefer they leave fickle in the line up also, I like the recourse but would like them to upgrade fickle with the next level increase expansion to do the same damage as the previous version bolt, then the new fickle will do more damage, cast faster and still cast the recourse. It is a win/win.
I am curious why you use fickle in groups when the previous version bolt will do more damage. I know the cast time is a bit longer but the 'punch' is a lot better. I took fickle out of the line up long ago. It is now 95 Spear, 90 Spear, 91 Bolt and 86 Bolt. Just didn't see the benefit for the lower dps of fickle for a bit less mana over the 86 bolt. Using rank 2 you get 403 more base damage for a mana cost of 204. Sure a bit longer cast time, but seems worthwhile to me.
Calebe
New Spells for Next Expansion:
Re: New Spells for Next Expansion:
The reason is multi fold actually.Calebe wrote:
I am curious why you use fickle in groups when the previous version bolt will do more damage. I know the cast time is a bit longer but the 'punch' is a lot better. I took fickle out of the line up long ago. It is now 95 Spear, 90 Spear, 91 Bolt and 86 Bolt. Just didn't see the benefit for the lower dps of fickle for a bit less mana over the 86 bolt. Using rank 2 you get 403 more base damage for a mana cost of 204. Sure a bit longer cast time, but seems worthwhile to me.
Calebe
My group rotation doesn't even have old spear. My group/solo rotation is a 3 spell lineup. 95 fickle, 95 spear, 91 bolt. The sdps and dpm is better on 95 fickle than on 86 bolt. The 91 bolt and the 90 spear are almost identical in sdps, with bolt being massively better on dpm.
Considering when in groups or solo, I'm usually not under the effects of fire core or EU, then the recourse proc makes subsequent spells that much better. Also, in that rotation, you get to cast fickle in between your 2 big nukes = more chances at better dps/sdps (or worse occasionally). Also, with just those 3, I'll only proc the current GoM to do with as I please.
On raids, especially burns, it's different as I'm not really concerned about sdps or dpm.
Re: New Spells for Next Expansion:
i agree that thaumatize should be looked at. we haven't had an upgrade to that line, and it's not keeping up. if we lose the nuke portion in favor of higher mana returns, it loses what set it apart from any of our other mana regen spells. i always liked the idea of combining damage and mana regen, rather than nuking our pet. admittedly, the nuke in its current state is really just token, so it wouldn't be a big deal to lose it. i'd also like aa to lower the cast time and recast time to go along with it, although that is probably a conversation for the aa thread. can we make it so the new version doesn't eat gift of mana, and is strictly a mana return spell? this might be the best argument for losing the nuke on it.
please please please extend the timer on symbiosis. it'd be nice if if lasted about the same as knowledge of the past, as i'm already in the habit of refreshing all my clickies when i see that timer gettin low.
our dses can basically be dropped to embercoat surge, and we won't lose anything. wtb worn off message for surge.
has there been any talk of upgrading blazing orb? i'd personally like to see a upgraded clicky nuke that doesn't eat a twincast counter. it's nice having blazing orb and paradox on spell twincast, but i'm still using the don nukes during itc. we may also have to deal with mutually lore tags in this line eventually, as i can see the devs not wanting us to be able to presummon another 10 charges. as far as mutually lore, i'd prefer it be in a lore group with the don spells if/when they they do it.
i'm a little puzzled why we continue to get upgrades to the spell mod rods, given they're mutually lore with aa mod rods.
our nukes are going to become an issue. constantly relying on spear from past expansions for burns will make our mana consumption absolutely ridiculous. were already eating mana on burns at ridiculous amounts. i'm a bit nervous the 'fix' for this will be putting spears on a shared timer, which would be devastating to the gains we've made. i, for one, will be a happy mage when i never again cast hot spear. it drives me insane casting the least efficient mage spell so often. one option would be adding in a magic based spear along with fire spear. this would cause issues with fire core, obviously, but would make elemental union more beneficial in some situations. again, maybe something more appropriate for aa thread, but it used to be that the color of the icons on current gift of mana and older gift of mana were different. in voa, all procs are blue. i don't know if this is an oversight or intentional, but making the older gom procs red again would be nice.
go go patch day.
please please please extend the timer on symbiosis. it'd be nice if if lasted about the same as knowledge of the past, as i'm already in the habit of refreshing all my clickies when i see that timer gettin low.
our dses can basically be dropped to embercoat surge, and we won't lose anything. wtb worn off message for surge.
has there been any talk of upgrading blazing orb? i'd personally like to see a upgraded clicky nuke that doesn't eat a twincast counter. it's nice having blazing orb and paradox on spell twincast, but i'm still using the don nukes during itc. we may also have to deal with mutually lore tags in this line eventually, as i can see the devs not wanting us to be able to presummon another 10 charges. as far as mutually lore, i'd prefer it be in a lore group with the don spells if/when they they do it.
i'm a little puzzled why we continue to get upgrades to the spell mod rods, given they're mutually lore with aa mod rods.
our nukes are going to become an issue. constantly relying on spear from past expansions for burns will make our mana consumption absolutely ridiculous. were already eating mana on burns at ridiculous amounts. i'm a bit nervous the 'fix' for this will be putting spears on a shared timer, which would be devastating to the gains we've made. i, for one, will be a happy mage when i never again cast hot spear. it drives me insane casting the least efficient mage spell so often. one option would be adding in a magic based spear along with fire spear. this would cause issues with fire core, obviously, but would make elemental union more beneficial in some situations. again, maybe something more appropriate for aa thread, but it used to be that the color of the icons on current gift of mana and older gift of mana were different. in voa, all procs are blue. i don't know if this is an oversight or intentional, but making the older gom procs red again would be nice.
go go patch day.
Re: New Spells for Next Expansion:
I have been discussing thaumatize, mod rods, and mana regen in relation to the next expansion with Aristo.
Blazing Orb is the lava orb upgrade and Aristo specifically made it eat up a twincast proc to give it more oomph. Not making a judgment one way or the other, just passing along info there.
I'm trying very hard to get that terrible 10 min refresh DS moved to an AA as well; maybe finally making it worth while for those who use them (both caster and recipient).
We've tried in the past to get symbiosis to last a little longer, so don't get your hopes up.
Blazing Orb is the lava orb upgrade and Aristo specifically made it eat up a twincast proc to give it more oomph. Not making a judgment one way or the other, just passing along info there.
I'm trying very hard to get that terrible 10 min refresh DS moved to an AA as well; maybe finally making it worth while for those who use them (both caster and recipient).
We've tried in the past to get symbiosis to last a little longer, so don't get your hopes up.
Re: New Spells for Next Expansion:
Your post was entirely too long. This is mostly responding to Bluejaye.
Gift of Mana procs on anything that uses mana. The nuke portion does not mean anything at all to it. So as long as thaumatize requires mana to cast it will always work on Gift of Mana. They will not be removing the mana cost unless we did not want it upgraded. Cast time is a bit iffy, but the recast is solid imho, if it gets too much lower it mind aswell be a long term buff.
Blazing orb procing during Spell Twincast is actually quite nice. Since it does not have a set amount of counters, it works out perfect.
As to the spear dealio. Asking for a Magic spear would hurt is a lot greater then using an older Spear. Currently our best burn disc is a 50 to 110% mod on FIRE nukes. EU is 45 to 90% on ALL nukes. So, we would be losing 5% on the low-end and 20% on the high-end for our nukes. Which means ANY burst we gained this expansion will be lost plain and simple. Our Fire Core disc already does not allow us to pump out enough spell DMG to compete, we should not be asking for something to lower it more on a burn.
Elemental Union is never more beneficial then Fire Core period. EU is a nice increase for our sustained, that is it. It is used for the end of boss fights, or trash during raid events. Necros need to cast some DoTs from 3+ expansions behind iirc, there is not a reason why we can not be forced to do so either for 1 spell.
As to gift of mana. The newer rank works for the older Spear. The Older rank only works for the older spear, not really hard to distinguish the two, cast a newer spell if it does not remove Gift then it procced off of our HoT spear.
Gift of Mana procs on anything that uses mana. The nuke portion does not mean anything at all to it. So as long as thaumatize requires mana to cast it will always work on Gift of Mana. They will not be removing the mana cost unless we did not want it upgraded. Cast time is a bit iffy, but the recast is solid imho, if it gets too much lower it mind aswell be a long term buff.
Blazing orb procing during Spell Twincast is actually quite nice. Since it does not have a set amount of counters, it works out perfect.
As to the spear dealio. Asking for a Magic spear would hurt is a lot greater then using an older Spear. Currently our best burn disc is a 50 to 110% mod on FIRE nukes. EU is 45 to 90% on ALL nukes. So, we would be losing 5% on the low-end and 20% on the high-end for our nukes. Which means ANY burst we gained this expansion will be lost plain and simple. Our Fire Core disc already does not allow us to pump out enough spell DMG to compete, we should not be asking for something to lower it more on a burn.
Elemental Union is never more beneficial then Fire Core period. EU is a nice increase for our sustained, that is it. It is used for the end of boss fights, or trash during raid events. Necros need to cast some DoTs from 3+ expansions behind iirc, there is not a reason why we can not be forced to do so either for 1 spell.
As to gift of mana. The newer rank works for the older Spear. The Older rank only works for the older spear, not really hard to distinguish the two, cast a newer spell if it does not remove Gift then it procced off of our HoT spear.
"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others."—Douglas Adams
Re: New Spells for Next Expansion:
Shakes head... *sigh*
Why, for the love of god, do people keep asking for magic based spear? Do people really want mages to do less DPS???
Savil
Why, for the love of god, do people keep asking for magic based spear? Do people really want mages to do less DPS???
Savil
Re: New Spells for Next Expansion:
The only reason to ask for a magic based spear is if it does the same damage as the fire based spear, and even then if only 1 magic based spell with decent damage is available it is not worth it. Back in the day (think Plane of Fire during PoP) where the best experience was in a zone almost totally immune to fire based spells then I can see mages as a class screaming for high damage magic based spells. That should never be the case again I hope, where the best experience was in a zone totally fire immune.
We need upgrades to our core spells which for mages are almost totally fire based. Magic based just to weak and ignored for to long to matter in the current game.
Calebe
We need upgrades to our core spells which for mages are almost totally fire based. Magic based just to weak and ignored for to long to matter in the current game.
Calebe
Last edited by Calebe on Wed May 16, 2012 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: New Spells for Next Expansion:
I was playing a beastlord during that timeframe, so PoF was the smurf for me... 
Magic based nukes just arn't the way to go for DPS ... but then again, I'm wondering how long they are going to leave pets smurf up (from what I understand they still are). If they are still doing broken after a full month has went by ... thats just sad, but then again, I've said it once, I'll say it again, the current devs are *clueless*.
Savil
Magic based nukes just arn't the way to go for DPS ... but then again, I'm wondering how long they are going to leave pets smurf up (from what I understand they still are). If they are still doing broken after a full month has went by ... thats just sad, but then again, I've said it once, I'll say it again, the current devs are *clueless*.Savil
Re: New Spells for Next Expansion:
Pets require a code fix. So it is all up to them at this point.
"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others."—Douglas Adams
Re: New Spells for Next Expansion:
Not so. It's affecting all types of pets. They can't reproduce the issue in house either. That's twofold: 1) They don't see it happening 2) They can't force it to bug out. I'm not exactly clear on how someone is supposed to fix something they can't even see is broken? For all we know, pets are working just fine on their end but the reporting is not coming through on our end (not likely but it illustrates my point).Savil wrote:I was playing a beastlord during that timeframe, so PoF was the smurf for me...
Savil
Also, want to point out a distinction here: this is a code issue and nothing to do with the devs because the two are completely different. Since it is affecting more than just normal pets and it's not anything related to what Aristo does, it is a code issue and code is actually working hard at reproducing it.
So, really nothing to do with this thread at all.
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