Tweyne's Stone of Evocation

Anything relating to the magical arts (pets, spells, AAs).
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Mindrix
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Re: Tweyne's Stone of Evocation

Post by Mindrix »

Controller wrote:Is there any more information available about this raid? I tried to duo it the other day with a wizard, both 85 and couldn't get the quintessence of sand past 95%. Eventually ran out of mana after about 35 minutes. I have to be missing something here...
You really need melee DPS for this fight. It's not friendly to casters.
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Redius
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Re: Tweyne's Stone of Evocation

Post by Redius »

Mindrix wrote:
Controller wrote:Is there any more information available about this raid? I tried to duo it the other day with a wizard, both 85 and couldn't get the quintessence of sand past 95%. Eventually ran out of mana after about 35 minutes. I have to be missing something here...
You really need melee DPS for this fight. It's not friendly to casters.
When I did this, it was 85 mage (me), 80sk (box), 80 druid (box). Was easy. Simply discard your nukes, fire off RS pet and heal your main pet. Won't be fast, but it'll get the job done. Bringing more melee DPS just makes it go faster.
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Baramos
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Re: Tweyne's Stone of Evocation

Post by Baramos »

Mindrix wrote:Was running the numbers on the Evoc aug and it gets a bit complicated, but it's roughly 2.5% of your mana pool. So it's worth that much. An aug for your secondary spec is in the range of 1.6% of your pool, for Magicians.

So, for 20k mana pool:

15% Evoc: 500 mana
15% Conj: 320 mana

For 40k mana pool:

15% Evoc: 1000 mana
15% Conj: 640 mana


That's a bit rough, but it's slightly complicated. But, yes, it's still the best mana aug in the game, and by a very, very wide margin.
What are the equations to set up this analysis?

I remember awhile back, someone had made a spreadsheet with various foci listed, specialization type, etc. Was good work.

What I wonder is

* Where the documentation for the effects of specialization are.

* Whether and how over-cap effects work for spec. Is it capped at your max? How do we know it is not?

And while I'm at it - where is any documentation for the way in which Clairvoyance fires. And how it fires. Does it have a fixed fire rate and then do a
/random or does it have fixed fire rate and then do a fixed reduction. Etc variations.

I wonder if there is a solid reference of this data on the web somewhere, with good sources, or if it exists only in the ether, in other words.

Bara
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Yitamin
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Re: Tweyne's Stone of Evocation

Post by Yitamin »

It is hard to find anyone in the know speaking very precisely on the clairvoyance effect, but this is what I could find. My take on this is a flat 2% chance to get the value of your clairvoyance back, per spell cast. So in my case, a 2% chance to get 228 mana back, or 4.56 mana/cast on average. This seems like a rather weak skill. I think at 20% it would still seem a bit insignificant. Likely to be of significant benefit the flat rate would need to be closer to be in the 50% to 100% mark. Even gaining 228 mana on a cast for me wouldn't be unbalancing based on the cast and refresh timers of magician spells. I'm not sure any class could take significant advantage of this as a mana regeneration tool, so I think the fear of abuse has mitigated this ability into obsolescence from the get go. Capping it at 50% of the mana cost of the spell, with a 50% fire rate, would make it worth chasing up for most of us, but would be of most advantage on small spells that folks cast a lot, and have far less impact on the "big boom" style, which seems like the intent given that it is a flat rate effect.

Rashere - It should give you a chance to get mana back after casting any spell. The amount of mana you get back is based on the amount of clairvoyance you have. The chance to get it back is static.

Ngreth - Clairvoyance checks that the modifier is greater than 0 AND the spell level is lower or equal to the player's level AND the spell level is not more than 5 levels lower than the player's level.

There is a 2% chance of getting the entire mod value back. There is no cap on the mana given back. Once the "base" modifier is determined (see below) there isn't any adjustment.

We collect the total clairvoyance mod from
A) Items you're wearing (sum of each worn item, and subject to anti-twink filter)
B) Tribute benefits (sum of each benefit) (no such items curently)
C) Guild tribute benefits (sum of each benefit) (no such items curently)
D) Food and drink bonuses (first food/drink found in slot order, using containers) (no such items curently)

Wearable items with a mod that you are carrying (I.E. not wearing) don't count. We take the sum of A-D. This is your clairvoyance modifier.

I will be having conversation about making this more effective, but part of that conversation is likely to include capping the return to the mana of the spell cast so that there is not "mana generation" from this, just help in recovering mana spent.

Ngreth - The specific intent for this is *NOT* to have another percentage based benefit, but a "Flat" benefit. That said, it is also not intended as a mana gain ability, so *may* need to be capped at spell cost.
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Baramos
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Re: Tweyne's Stone of Evocation

Post by Baramos »

Thanks for the legwork Yitamin.

You must have found a super-secret method to get the Search feature on EQPlayers to divulge information.

Bara
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Mindrix
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Re: Tweyne's Stone of Evocation

Post by Mindrix »

Specializations are fixed amounts. Know this from working with Maddoc for a long time (also helped get fixed the % rounding bug that existed for a while). It's 1% pres for every 20 points.

Current Max for a single spec is 260. With a Spec 15% aug, it's 299. That's 39 over base, or 1.95% pres extra.

Now, it's important to note how this stacks. It's 1.95% off the base spell's mana, not the adjusted. So, some quick assumptions.

Assume: SCM 3 (10% base pres), 260 spec Evoc base (14% pres, 260/20 = 13% + 1% from having the spec) and 20% mana pres on the focus (10% average focus).

So predicted pres is 34%, so 66% of the base mana value of the spell.

The increase is against base, no focused, so it's 1.95%/66%, which is ~2.95% decrease in mana usage. Thus, the 15% spec evoc augment is worth 2.95% of your mana pool (at lvl 85). Which is higher than the 2.5% I quoted earlier (I did this work back on the other forums, I think, but that's lost now), as I was remembering it off the top of my head. The numbers, under the same assumptions, for Conj spec 15% augment follows:

Assume: SCM 3 (10% base pres), 175 spec conj base (9.75% pres, 175/20 = 8.75% + 1% from having the spec) and 20% mana pres on the focus (10% average focus).

So, predicted pres is 29.75%, so 70.25% of the base mana value of the spell.

201 - 175 = 26 spec change. 26/20 = 1.3% pres. 1.3%/70.25% = ~1.85%. So the Conjure spec 15% augment is worth 1.85% of your mana pool (at lvl 85).
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Baramos
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Re: Tweyne's Stone of Evocation

Post by Baramos »

Hey Mindrix thanks for the information. Good stuff.

One more question. How are we sure that they allow the +15 % over the 260 cap in their calcs without doing a check on spec and using If Altered_Spec_Value is Over 260 then Altered_Spec_Value is equal to 260, in other words.

Bara
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Mindrix
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Re: Tweyne's Stone of Evocation

Post by Mindrix »

Baramos wrote:Hey Mindrix thanks for the information. Good stuff.

One more question. How are we sure that they allow the +15 % over the 260 cap in their calcs without doing a check on spec and using If Altered_Spec_Value is Over 260 then Altered_Spec_Value is equal to 260, in other words.

Bara

They're fixed values, just take off the variable mana effects and check. But I've been told it is, and I believe I remember checking that it was as well, but it's been ages and on the old forum, lol.
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nylrem
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Re: Tweyne's Stone of Evocation

Post by nylrem »

This is definitely the best aug for a Magician, hands down. I tested with Bolt of Molten Scoria RK III against a dummy in Test server's arena, it dropped my average spell cost by 22 mana. I averaged the cost of 50 casts before putting aug in, then 50 casts after putting aug in. As has been posted, best aug for us, period :)

Nylrem of Test, Officer of Tribe, member of Test Server Friends
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roro
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Re: Tweyne's Stone of Evocation

Post by roro »

How difficult is the raid for the conjuration stone? Any tips/strategies I should know about?
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