The Magician's Tower

I jsut got an EM 17 focus item, replacing my EM16. I noticed that the pet did not go up a level. My pet went up a level going from 15 to 16, but I was sure it would go up again with EM 17. It has more hps and hits harder, but was just expecting a level gain, being its from the new expansion. Does EM 18 raise the pet a level?? If not, did the devs forget this??

Also, any find it dumb that the fire pet nuke doesn't do more damage with higher EM focus??

micker wrote:I jsut got an EM 17 focus item, replacing my EM16. I noticed that the pet did not go up a level. My pet went up a level going from 15 to 16, but I was sure it would go up again with EM 17. It has more hps and hits harder, but was just expecting a level gain, being its from the new expansion. Does EM 18 raise the pet a level?? If not, did the devs forget this??

Also, any find it dumb that the fire pet nuke doesn't do more damage with higher EM focus??

People always expect that pet level equals power. Nothing was forgotten. The gain from gaining a level isn't much for pets. The overall template build means more than anything. All the stats on the pet are handcrafted and the level just changes how calculations are done for various things (resists, damage, etc) but who knows how those are handled by pets. In the end, the level change is more of a novelty.

At 100, all the pets con dark blue with EM 18.

Aristo is aware that FBO is not working on the fire pet. He has an idea why but I have not heard when a fix is going in. The data is there though so all he needs to do is make FBO work on the pet.

EM18 does raise pets lvl to 99, thats the best we can get right now.

Actually there are spots that actual pet level does have a noticeable impact on how well the pet works... When pets attack mobs that are more than 4-5 levels higher their DPS drops a lot. Sometimes that 1 level difference is a lot of DPS. Its the same in reverse, sometimes that 1 level difference can really hurt the pet when tanking red con mobs.

Savil

Voragath wrote: Aristo is aware that FBO is not working on the fire pet. He has an idea why but I have not heard when a fix is going in. The data is there though so all he needs to do is make FBO work on the pet.

It's just that last level. FBO7 works just fine on fire pet.

Voragath wrote: People always expect that pet level equals power. Nothing was forgotten. The gain from gaining a level isn't much for pets. The overall template build means more than anything. All the stats on the pet are handcrafted and the level just changes how calculations are done for various things (resists, damage, etc) but who knows how those are handled by pets. In the end, the level change is more of a novelty.

Vor,
I always noticed that as a PC level makes all the difference in dmg and dmg mitigation. It seems to be the primary determinant when my melee character swings or gets swung at. In fact, all else equal (AC, etc.) my paladin gained 3 levels and the new melee mitigation for the same mobs was astounding. So its safe to assume the formula for the checks incorporates level checks first and foremost. Why wouldn't this be so for NPCs as well?

My primary concern is melee avoidance and mitigation for pets. Can't we assume the mob trying to hit your pet takes level as a major factor for melee? In fact, when swarming in Paw, my pet 5 levels higher was able to take on triple the mobs at once, and that was with the same elegant defiant plate gear, same foci.

Does anyone know the actual formula?

First, NPC to PC is possibly different than NPC to NPC. Also, your pet five levels higher with the same focus is an entirely different pet template. Not even close to the same thing.

Yes, it DOES have an impact with mob level. I'm talking strictly about a specific pet (i.e. the levels of the 96 air pet and it's templates, not all air pets that work with EM 15). EM 17 and EM 18 levels are a non-issues because 1 level or 2 level difference will be minimal on the formula compared to AC, dmg, and stat changes for the pet from the templates.

So, when discussing levels by focus, it would be an issue if the pet was not in the new 5 level range of the expansion; but a level 99 pet isn't going to see any noticeable difference than a 100 pet.

To answer your question: " Can't we assume the mob trying to hit your pet takes level as a major factor for melee?" No, we can't and that assumption is false. It is a factor but far from a major one. It's only a factor in so far as that it would be a waste of time to make the pets con 10-15 levels lower than us; they must be in the new pc level range.

Voragath wrote:First, NPC to PC is possibly different than NPC to NPC. Also, your pet five levels higher with the same focus is an entirely different pet template. Not even close to the same thing.

Yes, it DOES have an impact with mob level. I'm talking strictly about a specific pet (i.e. the levels of the 96 air pet and it's templates, not all air pets that work with EM 15). EM 17 and EM 18 levels are a non-issues because 1 level or 2 level difference will be minimal on the formula compared to AC, dmg, and stat changes for the pet from the templates.

So, when discussing levels by focus, it would be an issue if the pet was not in the new 5 level range of the expansion; but a level 99 pet isn't going to see any noticeable difference than a 100 pet.

To answer your question: " Can't we assume the mob trying to hit your pet takes level as a major factor for melee?" No, we can't and that assumption is false. It is a factor but far from a major one. It's only a factor in so far as that it would be a waste of time to make the pets con 10-15 levels lower than us; they must be in the new pc level range.

And just to add to the point of that not every EM level modifies the actual pet level, the devs were nice enough in the SoD days to provide us with the actual stats that the pets gained for the 80-85 pets via the raw data in the below chart (I put the data into this chart way back when we got the data to make it easier to read). Granted this isn't for the current pets, but it follows the exact same concept as the below chart.

I also created an entire post about pet focuses and how they affect our pets located here.

One of the core mechanics in EQ from the beginning has been the simple fact that raw mob / pc level *always* affects its ability to hit / be hit by another mob / pc. Its simple really, if a pet has a TON of raw attack for a given level, it will *not* do the same DPS as the same pet that is 1 level higher. I'm not saying the DPS will be massively differenet because it will not be, but it *is* more. The same is true with pet AC. For example, earth pet at level 84 with 2412 AC (EM16) will *not* tank as well as the same pet at level 85 by the summoning templete. This becomes much more noticeable when the pet is trying to tank many much lower con mobs, or 1 4-5+ level higher con mob.

Again, this has *always* been true. Its true for PCs as well. A good example for PCs can be seen when a melee DPS class attacks a raid mob from the past exp. I've seen MAJOR DPS jumps from nothing but levels only. No discs, no new AA, just raw level.

Raw pet level is more important than is being said here, else why bother increasing the pets level at *all* with each new EM focus level?? Given the pets are only stats given to a templete based on the EM summoning level why not just leave them all the the base level you get them from the spell and just up there stats? Could it be that the raw pet level has some sort of importance after all? And please don't say its only to keep people happy that con them because we all know thats not true.

Savil

As I stated before, pet level is important but it is minimal. Once you start talking about the new pc level range when level ranges come about, (a 5+ level spread) then it is important.

I discussed this with Aristo one day to determine exactly how much of a difference it makes. Once you get the pet levels in the proper place, stats are more important than level. This is why our pets maintain their con levels approximate to pc levels.

The stats have to keep up with the mob stats. Mob stats are just like pets: templates. They don't say, make x mob spawn here but y level. Each mob type in a zone is crafted. So, you need pet stats to be at a level close to mob stats to make sure the pets will do a set amount of damage, take a set amount of damage, dodge a certain amount, etc.

Pets have RAW AC so them gaining a level is nowhere close to how a PC gains power from leveling up; a PC gains from the increase to the softcap. Just because a PC gains power from leveling up does not mean that pets benefit. A PC gaining a level is akin to giving a pet a new template (i.e. a new pet focus). Pet level does factor into the equation for dmg, mit, avoidance et. al. but pets function like npc's so it is unknown if they follow the same formula for PC's in calculations.

No one is saying it's not of importance. As long as your pet is conning DB at the new levels, then the pet being level 96 or 97 is kind of moot based on the template. Templates are adjusted based on what Aristo wants the pet to take and dish out at each focus level; as long as it cons in the right range, it's a matter of juggling stats.