Elemental form: Fire not stacking with Chaotic Benevolence

[Stephen51]

Hi, I've just bought rank 4 of the Elemental Form: Fire. When I cast it, it wont hold if I have chaotic benevolence on me. I only have rkI of CB, but I tested it out with the lvl 94 version, Chaotic Assistance which was rkII and the same thing happened. Should I bug report this, or is this an intended conflict. If the latter, how do I use rank 3 of elemental form again, I'm sure theres a way,rather than asking for a refund.

[Fleiss]

MR/Druid spell Recourse procs don't stack with EF: Fire. Chaotic Assistance never stacked with these either. I assume these are all in the same catagory and this is intended.

[dorfillya]

We are getting a lot of seemingly beneficial effects which come by virtue of proccing off of our spell casting, mostly from some type of damage casting. We have prayer shawl procs, these elemental form procs, weapons damage procs, mana return augment procs, damage potion procs, chanter mana reiteration procs, etc. etc. I feel, even if we are chain casting ASAP, we can maybe cast 15-16 times a minute? We are getting so many procs, that some just wont be casting at all. The other day, I made an audio trigger for the resonant fire potion proc, and it did not go off a single time during the 54(?) minutes it was up. (The resonant fire potion was a lower level one that I still had in inventory and was trying to get rid of, maybe level 13?) Some of these procs not stacking is not necessarily a big deal, as, they are not going to all fire anyway.

What is a big deal, is that I think the game designers think they are giving us something really good, when in fact, what we end up with is virtually zero.

[Piemastaj]

Your potion did not proc because you had Wild Fire or Mana Reverberation on. Both of which will not allow the potion to proc as it is on the same spell slot as the potion.

The problem is, nothing stacks for casters. There is not one thing that stacks but crit chance, which essentially does nothing nothing kewl and we can max out whenever we want because the highest you can get is 100%. Any type of procs we get, even if they are on us, there is a set proc per minute ratio. Also we can only cast X amount of spells in a 60 second period as well, we are not casting 20 spells in 2 seconds like melee will hit.

So, yes the elemental form change is really not that good. WF/MR are far better choices in pretty much any group content. the reason being is, they did not beef them up enough. And that was because they didn't want to have to nerf things. Which is a silly reason to make most of our abilities lacking in power. That was per Elidroth, so we are stuck with them the way they are until he feels they need some love.

[dorfillya]

Your potion did not proc because you had Wild Fire or Mana Reverberation on. Both of which will not allow the potion to proc as it is on the same spell slot as the potion.......

That is exactly my point (although you are really basically agreeing with me) we have all these items and potions and spells which seem to give great proc effects, while in reality, the few procs we can actually get per minute amount to very little. And hasted melee are getting MANY more procs per minute than casters.

We have too many procs in the same spell slot, and a limited number of procs per minute, which means making more procs for casters gives us very minimal return.

[Fleiss]

Your potion did not proc because you had Wild Fire or Mana Reverberation on. Both of which will not allow the potion to proc as it is on the same spell slot as the potion.......

That is exactly my point (although you are really basically agreeing with me) we have all these items and potions and spells which seem to give great proc effects, while in reality, the few procs we can actually get per minute amount to very little. And hasted melee are getting MANY more procs per minute than casters.

We have too many procs in the same spell slot, and a limited number of procs per minute, which means making more procs for casters gives us very minimal return.

I kind of agree other than your example. Shaman made potions were always lesser in design to player cast spells/auras. They are nice if you don't have that class around but never made as a "in addition to" proc. SE, HoT, Clarity, and these have been this way since they came out. they have never stacked.

Now are we getting too many proc, probably. I do nto mind more procs if they knew what all it affects when they put it in. It does take a lot of work on a player part to learn what is stackign with what or if using new ability actually lowers your DPS because it doesn't allow another ability to go off. That is the more annoying part of it. The potion thing seems obvious to me, all the new stuff take a lot of trial and error to determine what is best. And even if it is best for your class, it might not be best for rest of the group because if X aura is in play it blocks some cool new ability they have.

[dorfillya]

Reading the initial description of, for example, the new fire elemental proc, I was excited to think that would help my dps, and, since I raid usually with 3-4 mages in my group, I imagined we all would have this fire elemental proc landing on the whole group repeatedly. I was hoping for a good bump of mage dps. Well, maybe it will help a little in the group setting, but now I see it is gonna be very limited help in raids. When they nerfed pet runes, I imagined myself and all the other mages should be casting chaotic benevolence to counteract the nerf, but, again, I see that chaotic benevolence is going to have limited effect. I used the resonant fire potion as an example, and maybe it was not the best example because it is a lower level proc anyway, but, my point is -- they keep giving us more procs and patting us on the head, hoping to pacify us, but all these procs amount only a very small, if any, increase over what we had before. More and more different spell casting procs is not the way to help casters. Increase a few good procs, and quit adding smaller useless procs that are never gonna fire anyway.

[Voragath]

Another issue is that there are only so many slots to put things. It is to the point now that, no matter what they make, it's gonna bump something else. Just another part of an aging game.

[Summerfrost]

So what are the optimal proc buffs now?

[Fleiss]

MR or druid proc auras. Though with amplify line added to chanter, I would have the chanter use TC and amplify and open up that proc line for whatever, whether that is a potion, Fire elemental Form, Chaotic.. take your pick.