Calling for pet nerfs

Anything relating to the magical arts (pets, spells, AAs).
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Enkel
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Re: Calling for pet nerfs

Post by Enkel »

deadman1204 wrote:I'm concerned that the only reason they are letting the thread run is because the devs agree with it. They never let nerf calls go like this.
We also had piestro before, who would lock something if it broke forum guidelines.
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Voragath
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Re: Calling for pet nerfs

Post by Voragath »

deadman1204 wrote:I'm concerned that the only reason they are letting the thread run is because the devs agree with it. They never let nerf calls go like this.
Pretty much. When the pet raid tanking thread came up last year or whatever, we were told, by a dev, that "we are looking into it." I've seen that a few times. That basically is code for, "we are going to nerf, just not sure what or how bad yet."

IMO, and removing any dev input (I was working 4 12-hour shifts at night when those threads popped up and the dev chimed in), there will be a nerf. It's already been pointed out why that thread is wrong. It's simple to figure out. People are complaining and the devs need to make it stop. The most efficient way is to nerf pets. If there were 30 devs like in GoD, then I'd not be worried and I'd be expecting a warrior increase/fix. That is not today's eq and there just isn't enough time to balance/fix warrior mitigation and issues. Think about it this way: 2 months to fix warriors v. 2 days to nerf pets.

Maybe we get lucky because Ngreth isn't the lead dev now but I'm not that familiar with Prat; though the few interactions I've had with him shows him to be very level-headed and extremely knowledgeable about eq.

This thread looks at one aspect and extrapolates it to laughable comparisons. It reminds me of the old Hemi argument for trucks when people thought that having a Hemi engine meant your truck was a badass. One component never ever represents the whole. I pointed it out in one of my threads that a few warriors in that thread are using outliers to prove their case and that the devs don't balance that class around one stat--as those warriors are doing.

As to subs--and this will be coarse and I don't mean offense--you are deluding yourself if you think there are enough mage subs to make a financial impact to eq. High mage subs is purely anecdotal and the actual class distribution looks far different than people might think. Also, it's possible, even if the mage distribution were true, that $ signs are in SoE's eyes because all those bought 85 accounts will reroll another box class and fork over more money for a different 85 class. In the end, the sub/financial argument is really just a red herring.
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Falore
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Re: Calling for pet nerfs

Post by Falore »

I am someone that most would probably consider a "lifer' on eq. It has been a couple years since i've been in a raid guild I was at one point a hardcore raider, but now I am a 'hardcore grouper' if such a thing exists lol. I have no desire to quit eq, I will never rage quit over a nerf I do not like.

However, I complete all hunter and conquest stuff in EQ. Even in the plane of war I am managing to get a lot done in that zone (haven't killed gyrup and the commanders yet or done a couple other things in the zone but I'm steadily getting it done with some friends. Pets dont function in this zone and I am willing to stick it out anyway because it's "just one zone" but if it becomes the norm and I cannot pet tank mission bosses or named bosses in the future succcesffully and it prevents me from being able to complete conquests i've been doing for years (some of which actually already have pet penalties in place but are still 'doable' with some challenge for pets) I will be forced to quit the game I love.

Now that begs the question, if someone like me feels that they will need to quit if there is a drastic nerf then how badly will that impact other mages that are super casual... or the lesser pet classes that have weaker pets than us already? one person will never hurt eq's success, I don't think my quitting would have some major impact on the game BUT I think it's an indication that this crusade on the soe forums is a form of griefing and VERY VERY VERY bad for the community.

I am honestly unwilling to sitdown and debate with most of the people in the SK community or the soe forums because unlike real life I am only willing to debate with someone on *the internet* when I respect them and / or they dont have a swarm of followers with a hidden agenda trying to destroy a class or set of classes with their convenient 'facts' and jealousy.

I especially like how some people have been twisting it when people claim our pets are not god mode and they try to twist it like we are saying our pets are weak. No mage thinks our pets are weak, our pets are powerful but they are FAR FAR FAR FAR from god mode given all the many limitations they have compared to REAL tanks as outlined in other threads by myself and others...

The hilarious thing is many of the people calling for 'parity' or 'nerfs' in the other thread are people i've seen make posts in recent weeks claiming they are a group geared sk, or a group geared xxxxxx or a raid geared warrior and they tank just fine in the plane of war... and now someone posts some pretty charts that boosts an anti mage agenda and suddenly all these people are screaming they need boosts? Pathetic.

I personally have done several named mobs in the plane of war with an end game raid geared warrior on xegony (great player, great gear) He tanks named mobs in that zone better than my earth pet tanks non named trash mobs in the field. I also have a group geared ranger that has successfully tanked the named mobs for several minutes at a time (2-3 minutes on several occasions) My ranger does not outtank my earth pet but he is forced to on the named fights *which is fine* however I can say on personal experience warriors currently DO outtank mage earth pets when the warrior is being played to their fullest. Warriors are in a very good place right now, far better than most would have the community believe.

Mages are in a good place too but you dont see our community on a witchhunt trying to destroy warriors and knights (yet)
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Enkel
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Re: Calling for pet nerfs

Post by Enkel »

a large issue is the warriors are leaving out valuable information and focusing on one point. Idk, me quitting does nothing to EQ, the only thing it might affect is the mage community (I parse a lot of smurf and get asked for a lot of infoz by people in serverwide / cross server tells). I don't know if I'll quit EQ, i've been talking about it awhile (as has other mages that I am close to), but this might be what breaks the camel's back (depending on how bad it is). Not only that, but they're straight calling for nerfs and the thread won't be locked. I have messages from Modz and a certain community head that people shouldn't be allowed to call for nerfs because it's against forum guidelines, yet they leave it up. The same people, Ravengloom is a great example, always claimed how great they were and how a pet didn't hold a candle to them (he is in full group gear), and now claims pet out tank them. This is a bunch of drones that are jelly trying to get us nerfed.
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Potawatomi
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Re: Calling for pet nerfs

Post by Potawatomi »

Frankly this smurf is getting ridiculous and Roshen isn't doing anything about it. Horray for smurf community relations!
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Voragath
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Re: Calling for pet nerfs

Post by Voragath »

Potawatomi wrote:Frankly this smurf is getting ridiculous and Roshen isn't doing anything about it. Horray for smurf community relations!
/agree
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Enkel
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Re: Calling for pet nerfs

Post by Enkel »

Enkel wrote:(I parse a lot of smurf)
Meant to write stuff instead of smurf, but was really tired and my typing went to crap. Probably spent 10 hours parsing tanking mitigation to send results to devs.
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Parlos
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Re: Calling for pet nerfs

Post by Parlos »

Registered to post here because my two posts in the thread on the EQ forums got deleted and got me my first two warnings in 15 years of posting. I'm a very soft-spoken person so I'm frankly a bit stunned by the whole thing and it's moved EQNext from a buy-first-day-and-take-the-week-off-work to a "do I want to patronize a company that treated me that way?"

I have a 100 SK and a warrior capped at 85 because he's in a progression guild. Both have creation dates in 2000, so I have been tanking stuff in this game for ages. I've been in guilds at the bleeding edge of content back when my schedule allowed for it and I've been a filthy casual when my schedule didn't allow. I also made a mage a few years ago when Drakkin came out and I have consistently been surprised at how NICE other mages are when I'm playing him.

Mage pets have never once threatened my place in the tank pecking order, and I have never seen any player who was a magician main calling for a warrior nerf - or a tank nerf of any kind. I wish I could say the same for other tanks, because when warriors DO get a taste of the nerf bat there's usually a knight swinging it.

The witch hunt that's going on on the EQ forums is nonsense, and I hope that someone sane at SOE looks at the thread on Monday and posts a message of "Thank you for your concern, but we're comfortable with the status of pets right now. I'm shutting this thread down now."

Anyway. I'm sorry to clutter up your forum with this but I wanted to get it out and I don't want to get a third warning or a ban for posting it on the official forums.
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Enkel
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Re: Calling for pet nerfs

Post by Enkel »

Parlos wrote: Mage pets have never once threatened my place in the tank pecking order, and I have never seen any player who was a magician main calling for a warrior nerf - or a tank nerf of any kind.
Thank you for your post, Parlos. Personally, all the mages that I chat with are in favor of warrior boosts, even if you take pets out of the equation and just isolate the Warrior class. It's funny how you can look at a community and see how, as a whole, they differ from each other (class communities). I don't know any mage that has ever said (save some zek mages : P ) nerf NTTB. I thought NTTB was an amazing ability, and should have stayed in the game. It made my Warrior feel "more" viable in content, and lowered the huge spikes for its duration (which was awesome). With it nerfed do I feel my warrior is bested by my pet? No, not in the slightest. When I hit all of my abilities, and I mean all the needed ones, my pet does not hold a candle to my Warrior. But, alas, the damage has been done.
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Voragath
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Re: Calling for pet nerfs

Post by Voragath »

Enkel wrote:
Parlos wrote: Mage pets have never once threatened my place in the tank pecking order, and I have never seen any player who was a magician main calling for a warrior nerf - or a tank nerf of any kind.
But, alas, the damage has been done.
This is true. There are at least two CRT's asking to nerf pets. There is one other mage CRT that I know is against them too. That makes it even. The problem is, I know more CRT's are likely to ask for nerfs as well or think that pet mitigation is an issue. The math was a red herring that worked, unfortunately.

How to change it? We all need to jump in and show that tanking is not a numbers game. We need to jump in and start showing, as a community, that tanking is more than damage since the day of tank and spank is long gone (RIP 1999). Tanking has many aspects now: avoidance, positioning, mitigation, hps, ac, aggro, keeping multiple mobs' attention, being able to jump in and replace a dead tank, etc. Our pet does ONE of those only. We also need to point out how devastating spiky damage is (and was, if you remember pre-SoF day pets) to pets. I'm already pushing our case in the CRT venues, but the community needs to do it in the public venue. It may not stop a pet mitigation nerf but it at least will help warriors get their fix and prevent us from having further complications in the future.
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