Summary of Feedback from Fan Faire 2010

[quseio]

bersker pet or berserker mode better it would reduce hps and mit by whatever amount but add damage abd frenzy

[Baramos]

The problem is you have high end mages bragging about moloing named mobs in Convortium. So most every other class thinks mages don't need help in any way. Yet high end raid mages say they are falling too far behind in the DPS parses.

The solution would be pets that do more dps, but less tanking ability.

However many mages who play solo or box with pet tanking wouldn't be in favor of that idea. However I think it is safe to say our level of pet tanking ability right now is pretty high when you chain RS along with it and a cleric merc.

If the base tanking ability were only marginally increased, but the DPS greatly increased, I think it would work out overall.

The (bold) is a very bad idea. This idea pops up like a bad penny every other year or so.

They already tried this, and it was a disaster. Starting in PoP and for a long time thereafter our pets were just visual DoTs, and it completely redefined our playstyle. That new idea, by Rytan, was that our pets would just be a DPS addition. A DoT.

We already have an extraordinarily powerful DoT class in the game.

Between the nerfing of our pet in such a way that re-defined our playstyle, and the fact that we were merely mod rod dispensers on raids, Mages mostly disappeared from Norrath. Lots of CoH bots, though. It was just me and a few others still posting away on the Mage boards for a good while there.

He (Rytan) has since changed his tune, as seen with the EM line and the general sturdiness of our pets. This change didn't occur suddenly but was the result of years of pressure, lobbying, and cooperation on these forums as well as (internal to SoE).

Different classes have niche strengths. Saying we're "too powerful" while simultaneously saying we're undesirable points to confusion and uncertainty even within the ranks of our own class (as seen above). Generic statements concerning what "most every other class thinks" are not only inaccurate sweeping generalizations, but the seeming "cause" for this false "effect" is taking point data (raid level Mage with the best focus in the game, all the AA's, the best gear), and applying that level of causality to the average Mage. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy. I have seen this over, and over.

I don't ever want to see the days of PoP "re-definition" recur in EQ.

Do we want some vanilla flavored class parity or real class distinction in this game? Uniqueness is the great power of Everquest, in my view.

Other guys in EQ have 170k crits, yet others have mind-blowing mana and incredible damage, and a whole array of tricks up their sleeves (hi Necro).

Mages are about the Pet.

[Sunlace]

The solution would be pets that do more dps, but less tanking ability. However many mages who play solo or box with pet tanking wouldn't be in favor of that idea. However I think it is safe to say our level of pet tanking ability right now is pretty high when you chain RS along with it and a cleric merc.

If the base tanking ability were only marginally increased, but the DPS greatly increased, I think it would work out overall.

I have nothing against using a cleric merc, but I think that we should be able to kill mob with tools that were given to our class : a pet, nukes, pet heals etc. Mercenary is here to help with faster kills, or assist with a named. Mercs are recent addition to the game, and before them every class had to stand on its own. Mercs should be an option, not a requirement.

I find it hilarious when necros complain about mage pets too strong and necro pets weak.

Necro: fd, snare, root, levant, mezz, undead mezz, undead slow, deathbloom, pet - yay it's weak one!, dots, more dots, did I mention fd? life taps, group heals.

Mage: pet, nukes.

[Calebe]

I can't believe someone playing a mage for any length of time would ever seriously suggest not helping pets tank better but increase their DPS. That is the worst idea if you play a mage. As previously said we were there, did that, and hated it. Rytan pets are a visible dot is correct, and someone suggested letting pets do more DPS but no real increase in tanking is death of the pet by stagnation.

Never again, our pets tanked fine in SoD, and with mob power increased in UF, our pets with EM8 (if you were lucky enough to have that), fair well, not as well as SoD content, but do ok. Now rememebr the mobs hit points weny way up in UF, the mobs DPS went up, and pets unless your one of the few mages with a EM9 or better focus stagnaed except for the AA's we got. Now with level 90 and mobs again going up in DPS and hit points someone suggests stagnating (ok a MINOR increase in tanking) in favor of DPS has to reconsider. Mobs will not get weaker, only stronger. Pets need to keep up or mages soloing or using their pets to off tank in the group game go out the window yet again as in the past, and we should never allow that.

For those that raid, a pet doing more DPS in favor of tanking sure, it is all they care about.

If you Raid, group, and/or solo, then your priorities are different, for the raid game you want DPS, for the group game if you use a pet to tank or off tank, pet survivability is way more important because a dead pet does NO dps. If you solo it is a no brainer, pet survivability is job 1.

So for 2 out of 3 game play styles pets tanking abililty is concern 1, and DPS. Lets not forget the pet needs to not only tank, but it needs to deal dps, and a lot of it, because we are a pet class. Not a tank with a pet, not a class as a necro with a pet to add dps to them. Mages are all built around their pet, it is the reason to play a mage. It needs to tank better in each level increase expansion to keep up with mob-flation, it needs to do DPS that is respected in the raid game to make the pets wanted and asked to be used, while in the same breath having the survivability to survive in the aoe area most raids have to fight through at times.

Mage pets need BOTH survivability and dps. Not one or the other. BOTH. Anyone playing a mage should always ask for both as it supports all game play. DPS for pets over lesser tanking great if all you care about is raiding, but that is only 1 side, the other 2, grouping and soloing must ALWAYS be a concern and thus tanking and DPS for mage pets. Ask for both not either/or. BOTH.

Calebe

[svenalo]

We can have both...primarily increase the DPS and survivability of the pet most use on raids, namely water, and primarily increase the tanking ability of the one most use soloing, namely air. There aren't many that use fire or earth regularly, but fire would get a DPS boost and earth a tanking boost...which again gives us both. Each pet has its niche, with a scaling of the different aspects based on that pet's niche.

Put another way, if I am off soloing I am less concerned with the DPS the air pet puts out and more concerned with its ability to tank and hold aggro. If I am in a group or raiding, I am more concerned with the water pet DPS'ing well and surviving any AE's than with how well it tanks. Come HoT, I expect that my playstyle will continue as it does and so then will my concerns, so what I want is a water pet that DPS's better and survives the raid crap...and a air pet that I can use as a tank when I go off soloing/questing. Each of those pets needs increases on both fronts, but the air pet DPS boost is secondary to its tank ability, and the water pet's tank abiltity is secondary to its DPS.

[Voragath]

The problem is melee despising the casters. Everyone fighting to be king at the only real 3 aspects in the game: tanking, dps, and healing. No one aspires to best utility though (evidenced by chanters wanting stronger nukes or better pets, bards wanting their uber nuking back, etc.). To minimize competition they go after the weak which, atm, is us mages since the BL's have been quashed for years. It has been ingrained to people's minds that we are dps so they think we have that and then they see our pets standing up with cleric mercs. Well, no one has ever provided proof of the wild claims on live. There claims are more like UFO sightings where dozens claim to have seen something but the few that claim to have proof have very little to offer. Our pets tank like smurf, they really do. If it takes EM 8 to make them tank convo mobs with a using pet da, merc healer, and our other tricks, then the pet is flat out weaksauce imo because I don't see Rangers, Wars, SK's, or chanter's (for chanter pets) pulling out all the stops to tank mobs in Convo.* Oh, they are raid geared too, hmm... Don't fall into the trap they have set on live. If we had wizard dps and pets that had the ability to tank like wars non-stop (not the every 10 mins we get now) then I'd say there's a problem. I saw an SK/Ranger duo at the top of the pyramid clear 1/4 of the room and kill names to boot so who's really OP and who really tanks too well? We all have seen Ranger DPS AND how well they tank but I don't see anyone calling to nerf them. I have seen these classes with nothing but a merc healer tank mobs consistently in convo: chanter, sk, ranger, warrior. I have heard that necros are soloing in Convo.

The devs know better and said it at FF. Our pets aren't tanking like eqforums claim and really could use a big boost so to say they need no tanking ability upgrade is falling for the dumbsmurfs on the eqforums. It's all fine and good for them to say they made some pet templates too powerful as long as they leave the base alone. The base pet is the springboard for focii templates and so the base pet is where we need to focus. Our base pet is just too impotent atm and we ALL need to get behind that and get them powered up.

If you really want to help our class: sign up to beta, test the pets, and offer feedback and back ourselves up on stronger pets; then do the same for the focused pets. You can sign up for beta until beta ends but sign up right away to get a better chance to get in. The more voices that speak for our pets and their abilities, the better our odds will be.

BTW: On my server, Tunare, I have yet to see a grouper mage in Convo when I'm there so I have no clue how they claim groupers are doing this. Actually, I rarely see more mages than myself; I have seen 3 max mages in convo at any one time.

*I am talking not in a group, just them and a merc.

[Baramos]

The problem is melee despising the casters. Everyone fighting to be king at the only real 3 aspects in the game: tanking, dps, and healing. No one aspires to best utility though (evidenced by chanters wanting stronger nukes or better pets, bards wanting their uber nuking back, etc.). To minimize competition they go after the weak which, atm, is us mages since the BL's have been quashed for years. It has been ingrained to people's minds that we are dps so they think we have that and then they see our pets standing up with cleric mercs. Well, no one has ever provided proof of the wild claims on live. There claims are more like UFO sightings where dozens claim to have seen something but the few that claim to have proof have very little to offer. Our pets tank like smurf, they really do. If it takes EM 8 to make them tank convo mobs with a using pet da, merc healer, and our other tricks, then the pet is flat out weaksauce imo because I don't see Rangers, Wars, SK's, or chanter's (for chanter pets) pulling out all the stops to tank mobs in Convo.* Oh, they are raid geared too, hmm... Don't fall into the trap they have set on live. If we had wizard dps and pets that had the ability to tank like wars non-stop (not the every 10 mins we get now) then I'd say there's a problem. I saw an SK/Ranger duo at the top of the pyramid clear 1/4 of the room and kill names to boot so who's really OP and who really tanks too well? We all have seen Ranger DPS AND how well they tank but I don't see anyone calling to nerf them. I have seen these classes with nothing but a merc healer tank mobs consistently in convo: chanter, sk, ranger, warrior.

hahah that is a very funny (and accurate) statement =)

Aside from the humor, I agree with everything else posted recently. You really must be in-country to understand the Mage territory.

People really don't "get us" (in the same way I don't "get" Necromancers - they seem to me to be OP compared to *everyone* but I keep my mouth (mostly) shut about that except as relative reasoning to Mage power since they are, or were, our closest brother.)

Necromancers are shrewd about their ability, play their cards close to the vest, and fight masterfully when their domain is threatened. And rightly so.

Mages should do the same.