Conjuration & Clickies

[Cielli]

here comes the Condom Catheter vs. Foley catheter argument...

[Piemastaj]

I have factored in everything. Your MR procs and everything both work equally well on Sands as it does on Spear, so that is not a factor in the equation. The same can be said for the mana procs, they proc the same mana back regardless of what spell you are using, another moot point.

What it comes down to is exactly what I posted earlier. You have 2x spears that do quite a lot more DMG then BOTH Conj nukes from VoA. You also have Bolt that does merely 2.5k less DMG. Your kill times are slower, meaning more incoming DMG meaning more of a chance you will die.

It is your play style, choose what you like. But IMHO your doing more harm then good to your play. Evocation is far better.

[Voragath]

I'm disappointed to see no upgrade to Our Fire Orb... as well as the scrapping of our Sands conjuration line. Without an upgrade to the Orb and the scrapping of one of our conjuration nukes, it seems our representative/and or the devs have overlooked the viability of Conjuration specialty for mages.

All classes took this hit. It was a direct decision by the dev team not to upgrade/continue certain lines..for now. They may bring them back with their announcement or whatever but who knows. These lines were brought up in beta and Aristo had already said what we see is what we get.

I already brought up the fire clicky with Aristo. It's an important one to upgrade but I got the same response, basically, he posted in the beta thread.

We'll all have to wait for this "announcement" it seems. Until then, we'll have to work with what we have in terms of spells.

[Cielli]

Thanks for your reply Vora.

[Vincentt]

I hope I don't get flamed too badly for saying this. I apologize in advance for talking a conj vs. evo route -- I'm sure I'll find dozens of arguments if I searched. Yet the argument changes since the game is dynamic. Some expansions and levels one is superior to the other. But I think conj spec and evo spec is fully situational to the play style and one is not "far better" the other. I'm not just talking player preference.

Argument for Spec Evo:
-Raiding mage
-crit aa's trained to wazoo
-well geared with huge mana pool

Argument for Spec Conj:
-Casual mage (not neccessarily group only, casuals do raid)
-aa's not fully up there yet and are more pet based.
-lower mana pool, runs out quickly
-is often duod/ boxed and cannot focus too much on speed kills since most combos are macroed.

I never played a raiding mage, but was a raiding wizard so I know about the wam-bam effects and timing nukes on mobs, and choosing resists, etc. Nukers in general (at least in my raiding time) never ever ever run low on mana. In fact they always have way too much and don't know what to do with it. And when they need it, they die from AEs. Maybe 1 in 10 encounters would I run oom. I usually finished the boss fights around 25% mana. And yes, I was consistantly in the top 3 DPS brag rights. Hardest part about being a nuker? Being alive till the end

Which is why I am so in love with the multi-dynamic mage class. "Mana-storage" masters is what they are, and through conjuration of items they excel. We need more clicky paradox orbs! Fight the power, Cielli!

/activate flameshield.

[Sillaen]

The pendulum for conj vs evoc swings back and forth. I haven't recalculated since RoF released with the new spells, but through VoA, it had shifted slight towards evoc in general with conj still slightly ahead of those who favor an onslaught of RS.
Even so, a conj spec mage weaving in raid only lose ~116 mana (~35m in 1st round) per casting round (RS, clash, spear, spear) on a spec evoc mage so it's not as horrible as people may think it is. Pick what you like to suit how you play the most and run with it.


As for the weave you have going Cielli, no doubt your conj weave is way more mana efficient than the standard fire weave. I'm not sure it's worth it though as you are doing the same damage for ~23% less mana spent, but at an ~50% increase in kill time and that's assuming surge and 3 RS' run to completion.

[Piemastaj]

Grouping is where I am speaking from. You will find out quick fast and in a hurry that we can not use our Garg pet there. Simply because it says ROI next to my name does not mean I speak exclusively about raiding.

To break this down Garg pets last roughly 36 to 40 seconds (robe dependent). That is to get their max DMG which is somewhere around 130k (EM16) with no Auras running in VoA. It is about as consistent as death and taxes, it does lower with tanking though. So essentially you need to wait 40 seconds to hit that 130k mark, now in my groups mobs last 20 seconds or so. So that is roughly 65k DMG from a garg pet, plus maybe another 30 to 45k if you cast it again at the 12 second mark. Grand total of 95kish DMG.

Now if you factor in your Conjuration nukes. Magic one is 7449 DMG for 999 mana with a 1.7 cast and a 5.25 recast. Fire one is 4744 DMG for 610 mana with a 1.3 cast and a 2.35 recast. So your weave will go Garg>Fire>Magic. 1+1.7+1.3= 4 seconds total cast time for your weave. Now global recast is 1 sec so that puts your weave at 7 seconds, which will be your next Fire nuke then you would finish off with a magic nuke before Garg repoped. So in a 12 sec weave your going to cast 2x fire, 2x magic 1x Garg roughly. For a total mana cost of 6332. The total DMG will be (lasting 40 seconds) 154386 roughly. 154386/6332=24.38 DMG to mana ratio.

For an Evoc weave: Spear 1- 19016 DMG for 3221 mana with a 1.8 cast and a 9 sec recast. Spear 2- 14271 DMG for 2999 mana with a 1.8 cast and a 9 sec recast. Bolt- 10180 DMG for 1526 mana with a 1.6 cast and a 6 recast. Garg>spear1>spear2>bolt. 1+1.8+1.8+1.6=6.2 seconds total cast time. 10.2 seconds after recast factored in which shouldn't leave time to cast another spell before Garg would repop. So 1x of each spell brings your mana total to 10860. The total DMG would be 173467 roughly. 173467/10860=15.97 DMG to mana ratio.

Now this is not including the fact that the Conj nukes all are extremely low DMG compared to the spears meaning the upside on 2x Spear is much greater when you do crit and additives ect.

Now if you factor in the 22% save from just shoulders. Conj: 154386/4937=31.27 DMG to mana ratio. Evoc: 173467/8469=20.48 DMG to mana ratio.

Like I said it is your choice, but not using your entire mana pool only hurts your cause. Mana does no good sitting around doing nothing.

[Voragath]

Thanks for your reply Vora.

You're welcome

[Vincentt]

As an off the beaten path mage, with lower AAs, I cast the following spells quite a bit more than I thought I did:

-Pet Renewal
-Short Duration DS
-Beam (when AA farming).

All conjuration based. I was surprised to discover the beams are conj based.

Instead of making mages constantly debate conj vs. evo, can devs give us an equivalent big bank nuke that's not just evo based, but has a twin that's conj based? And players can just pick which they want?

[Potawatomi]

I doubt adding a conj nuke on par with a the spear or bolt line would stop any debate. It would only increase the debate.