Test Update 01/08/13

[Potawatomi]

WTB Pet aggro display toggle on/off button...This will be the next thing asked for after the patch on live.

[Felinya]

Agro is and always has been quirky. I play a war main and I pride myself on the agro generation I do so others can do their job. There are times where pets, have to be blamed for the disparity, because there is no other reasonable explanation. I would be summon tanking a mob and I would have a HUGE lead over everyone else then an AE would hit and pets would be on the boss or the pet owner thought it was ok to send in for dps. Then the boss would start summoning the pets owner or it would attack the nearest PC while I was summon tanking. I guarantee I was above the PC by a very large amount. The only variable is the pets. On rooted mobs proximity agro is horrible and that might be due to pets as well. I'm 100% sure that pets aren't taunting. The agro they generate throws off the proximity and then we have to worry about melee being too close. Granted its their job to worry and stay at max melee but you know people want to make sure they're top of parses so jockeying for position happens frequently.

Nothing worse than giving everything you can on a mob to be way a head on agro to see someone else on HoTT. Pisses me off more than I care to say. The only thing I can attribute it to are pets. We have a pretty educated raid force. We have had pets banned multiple times over the last 5 years on events that are agro list dependent. I know it pisses people off. Or you can be a top tier guld that lets mage pets tank their mobs for them instead of wars/knights but I suppose thats pretty smurf cool if it's your pet.

[Fleiss]

Felinya
While some of the stuff you may say it true, it isn't all pets. If your pet oweners are sending in their pets on something they shouldn't, it is the owners fault and they deserve to be summoned. If someone if topping you on aggro list, it wasn't because of a pet it is because they have more aggro than you. If they hit taunt to case it, it is once again that toons fault. Tanking rooted mobs, that isnt a pet either, that is a dynamic that has been in game forever where your prox is important. Pets have been huge aggro for a long time. I know events that this is not acceptable, and I deal with it. It is a dynamic of the event. This post will probably derail into a pet push talk now and how it is ruining everything :p

Pet are consistant. The random is other PCs (including the PCs controlling the pets). Pet follow a script once given a command until given another command. PCs will not do the exact same thing everytime. There will be more variation there. We can all blame pets but really they do what they are commanded to do and we all should know what that is by now. We all hope we give a command to a raid and they follow it but we all know that isn't true :p

I would say think outside the box instead of saying it can only be attributed to pets. It is easy to blame a program that can't respond. Not say there is never issues with pets but the default it must be pets is kind of old.

[Voragath]

Agro is and always has been quirky. I play a war main and I pride myself on the agro generation I do so others can do their job. There are times where pets, have to be blamed for the disparity, because there is no other reasonable explanation. I would be summon tanking a mob and I would have a HUGE lead over everyone else then an AE would hit and pets would be on the boss or the pet owner thought it was ok to send in for dps. Then the boss would start summoning the pets owner or it would attack the nearest PC while I was summon tanking. I guarantee I was above the PC by a very large amount. The only variable is the pets. On rooted mobs proximity agro is horrible and that might be due to pets as well. I'm 100% sure that pets aren't taunting. The agro they generate throws off the proximity and then we have to worry about melee being too close. Granted its their job to worry and stay at max melee but you know people want to make sure they're top of parses so jockeying for position happens frequently.

Nothing worse than giving everything you can on a mob to be way a head on agro to see someone else on HoTT. Pisses me off more than I care to say. The only thing I can attribute it to are pets. We have a pretty educated raid force. We have had pets banned multiple times over the last 5 years on events that are agro list dependent. I know it pisses people off. Or you can be a top tier guld that lets mage pets tank their mobs for them instead of wars/knights but I suppose thats pretty smurf cool if it's your pet.

Summon tanking is the problem.

Learn how to tank without summon tanking and you''ll notice a huge difference. Anytime you back up, you smurf up aggro. Stand and fight like a real warrior or pay the consequences: screwy aggro.

[Felinya]

Learn how? funny. When you have extremely short numbers you will do what you have to in order to win. Obviously you didn't read the rest of it and focused on the one thing.

[Voragath]

Learn how? funny. When you have extremely short numbers you will do what you have to in order to win. Obviously you didn't read the rest of it and focused on the one thing.

I read the whole thing. Aggro only is quirky when you are not standing at the mob. You could say something about push/warping but you didn't. No where did you say short numbers. On top of that, if short numbers are forcing you to summon tank, pets still aren't the issue. If you are short numbers, you have no business at that raid. You are just another tank looking to blame pets for the wrong problems <-- that's the real point. Putting the blame in the wrong location solves nothing.

You seem heavily invested in parroting the same old tired arguments. Bring some prove or new argumentation to the table; otherwise the problem is still the players and their tactics.

[Felinya]

I don't care either way so no I'm not vested in the old arguments. What I'm saying is that agro is weird with pets involved. When pets are introduced to a raid event they change the agro landscape, plain and simple. This scenario was VoA argath with 30 and 10 were bots. War summon tanking (me) no one else casting or hitting the boss. Once the carts are in place the boss will take dmg. All the time I'm dumping agro disc as soon as they repop and soon as he's able to take dmg I unload all of my longer recast agro discs/aa's. While I'm summon tanking still and everyone unleashes on him I lose agro to the nearest PC. You're telling me that had to do with a PC and not a pet? THe PC didnt taunt, over agro (not possible), or use any other ability to gain agro. I get back in range I have agro. I back out again and it starts to beat on the closest PC which were 3 rogs, 2 zerkers and a BL. Knights (2) were handling adds. I'm sorry but I dont mean to sound like I'm fighting with you but really?? How do you attribute this to anything besides a pet? This didn't happen immediately after engage for the dps, it was after 1 or 2 minutes.

I've thought that once the boss becomes damageabile he wipes agro, maybe but I cover that with the using my long recast abilities. Maybe it does a periodic mem wipe but it doesn't (to my knowledge and I checked). I just dont know what else to think.

This was not an authorized guild event but it was solely guildies and experienced ones at that.

[Voragath]

I don't care either way so no I'm not vested in the old arguments. What I'm saying is that agro is weird with pets involved. When pets are introduced to a raid event they change the agro landscape, plain and simple. This scenario was VoA argath with 30 and 10 were bots. War summon tanking (me) no one else casting or hitting the boss. Once the carts are in place the boss will take dmg. All the time I'm dumping agro disc as soon as they repop and soon as he's able to take dmg I unload all of my longer recast agro discs/aa's. While I'm summon tanking still and everyone unleashes on him I lose agro to the nearest PC. You're telling me that had to do with a PC and not a pet? THe PC didnt taunt, over agro (not possible), or use any other ability to gain agro. I get back in range I have agro. I back out again and it starts to beat on the closest PC which were 3 rogs, 2 zerkers and a BL. Knights (2) were handling adds. I'm sorry but I dont mean to sound like I'm fighting with you but really?? How do you attribute this to anything besides a pet? This didn't happen immediately after engage for the dps, it was after 1 or 2 minutes.

I've thought that once the boss becomes damageabile he wipes agro, maybe but I cover that with the using my long recast abilities. Maybe it does a periodic mem wipe but it doesn't (to my knowledge and I checked). I just dont know what else to think.

This was not an authorized guild event but it was solely guildies and experienced ones at that.

Summon tanking means you are running out of range of the mobs aggro radius. That changes the aggro dynamic. There is a thing called proximity aggro. You really think that you can maintain all the aggro you have while running from the mob? It doesn't work that way. When you run from the mob, as I said before, you change all the aggro dynamics. I'm sorry you don't like that but it is a hardcoded mechanic in the game to deal with. If the nearest PC has more aggro than you because they are doing something stupid or trying to stay just under you on aggro and you run a certain distance, that nearest PC is gonna take your aggro. Nothing to do with pets. It is hard coded that a mob goes for the nearest pc if in aggro radius or to the highest on hate if none that close.

Like I said but you seem to ignore: summon tanking is your problem, not pet aggro. Stand there and you won't have an issue.

[Sillaen]

Vor is absolutely correct. Your scenario has nothing to do with pets at all. Summon tanking a rooted mob while other melee PCs try to do DPS is your problem. If you have the kind of aggro lead you claim to have, simply stand in range and you'd never lose aggro until another PC surpasses you in aggro.

[Vincentt]

Google isn't helping me figure out summon tanking!

Does summon tanking involve being under 40% hp throughout the encounter?