Underfoot NDA lifted

[Msha]

A huge problem though is that our RS pet can't tank very well in UF, it will be wasted by much trash fairly fast. The days of using RS as offtank is more or less over.

[wire]

So in your opinion, would changing spec from evo to conj be "the way to go"? Seems to me like RS will be our bread and butter in UF.

I did post this *after* your question, but here is a thread on that.

Using the highest WDPS weave in SoD, specializing in Evocation yielded a total savings of 1119 mana per weave, or 73 mana per weave more than specializing in Conjuration.

Using the highest WDPS weave in Underfoot, specializing in Conjuration yields a total savings of 831 mana per weave, which is 22 mana per weave more than specializing in Evocation.

Conjuration now provides more overall benefit to a raiding Magician while maxing in Underfoot.

If you're hitting RS as often as it's available, I would think the results should extend pretty well to the group game also.

[Daiou]

Aye, i just finished reading your post Wire, it does look like conj would be much better for me.

Always love your posts. Thank you.

[Piemastaj]

Daiou, I NEVER group I am a soley duo/solo mage with some decent raid gear. And I find evoc would still be a better setup, especially with the inflated HP values people are saying. You figure ur first RS will die with in 10%, b/c the new mobs are hitting for 5k dmg. The next 2 will prob last maybe another 25%, along with the 4th and 5th ones getting it down to probably 50%ish. If you keep chaining it your probably below 30% mana by the time the mobs die. Granted I was not in beta, but people are saying the mobs are hitting for 5k in the starting zone, and they have like double the hp of SoD mobs. So, I find it hard to believe that you will be able to kill 3 or 4 mobs with that strat. Granted, then you need to factor in all the possible evoc saves your getting as your chaining RS. I still think you would get more bang for your buck if you stayed with evoc.

My numbers are probably alittle bit off seeing as I was not in beta and can not test this myself, but that is a hypothetical situation. Still seems better to use Evoc vs Conj as a spec.

Again, just my out-look on it.

[Conjem]

A huge problem though is that our RS pet can't tank very well in UF, it will be wasted by much trash fairly fast. The days of using RS as offtank is more or less over.

The offtanked mobs will summon you as soon as RS gets smoked. /nod

[Voragath]

I tried the lavakin as I didn't get too much time to play around in beta. On just moloing one, I yanked out RS 3 times. That should give you a hint to the mob hp in this expansion (pet was em 7). Then, another added before I hit ooc and my merc was already at 50% mana but I had it to about 30%, mana running out, and I get a 2nd add. Sent an emergency RS to finish off the one and he was toast in 5 seconds. That put me below mana to cast another RS but I tried it. Mob was at 10% when I noticed merc oom and pet was going down. Hit LOH to buy some time for gate and bolted.

I have a hodgepodge of Tier 4 raid and tier 5 group. I had the Tier 4 raid arms and hands with a tier 3 raid BP. Merc was Tier 5. Fortify companion and companion's blessing were the only pet aa's not maxed (that includes the UF ranks). Mileage will vary of course.

The point is, even well-geared mages will have a hard time doing much of anything productive solo in UF. I don't know where the xp is going to be set at so grinding in UF may or may not be profitable. Mobs are closely packed and there are numerous si. Grouping and chaining RS will likely only work if you have someone else tanking or can grab one solo far enough away from an add and tank it with your pet. If you are burning RS, conj. spec. or not, you're still playing russian roulette, imo. Also, ooc regen only helps if you can find a camp where you'll go unmolested and be able to pull to that camp. Not sure how many there are in UF because I didn't get a chance to run out and check that out. Only had enough time to check out a quest or two, play with the new spells and aa's, and do a cursory review of the mobs in the tier 6 group zones.

The mana regen is still being hashed out (we want it higher) but it's a mana over time, not the big burst that wizzies get so not too viable for chaining RS. I'm guessing that's why the devs won't give it to us burst-style. Aslo, iirc, and Wire will probably correct me--hopefully, if I am wrong--you need a pet up to even cast the regen. You can pop it early on a fight to max your gain in a fight but it will be down for some time and not ready for the next fight or two at least. Our new regen is the harvest style we've asked for but is kinda acting like a no dmg mega version of symbiosis.

I hope that gives you more info on your decision to pick conj. If you do, and it works, then awesome! Grats to you! I don't share your optimism, unfortunately.

[Daiou]

Daiou, I NEVER group I am a soley duo/solo mage with some decent raid gear. And I find evoc would still be a better setup, especially with the inflated HP values people are saying. You figure ur first RS will die with in 10%, b/c the new mobs are hitting for 5k dmg. The next 2 will prob last maybe another 25%, along with the 4th and 5th ones getting it down to probably 50%ish. If you keep chaining it your probably below 30% mana by the time the mobs die. Granted I was not in beta, but people are saying the mobs are hitting for 5k in the starting zone, and they have like double the hp of SoD mobs. So, I find it hard to believe that you will be able to kill 3 or 4 mobs with that strat. Granted, then you need to factor in all the possible evoc saves your getting as your chaining RS. I still think you would get more bang for your buck if you stayed with evoc.

My numbers are probably alittle bit off seeing as I was not in beta and can not test this myself, but that is a hypothetical situation. Still seems better to use Evoc vs Conj as a spec.

Again, just my out-look on it.

You raise a few good points, aggro being the most striking. Being that i have a tank only 50% of the time, RS aggro would cancel its M/DPS value. Guess i'll just wait and feel my way around till i see what works best for me.

Thanks for the feed back guys, much appreciated.

[Elentarri]

I am a decent geared raid mage, in mostly still t5 group gear with some speckling of t3 raid gear and tower jewellry etc. In brells rest with the t9 raid armor and em8 pet with merc and chaining rs pets i was killing 2 lavakins before i had tomed occasionally 3 if my gom procs were lucky.

[Voragath]

Was in Brell's Rest today doing the lavakin, elementals, nestlings, etc. quests with my guildies. We are just now starting to farm tower, we have 3 brekt kills, so most of us are in a mix of gear involving T5 group through T3 raid gear with a few pieces of Tower gear. We are all 85. 3 of us had over 2k aa's and I'm now up to about 1950 (magelo is out of date until they patch). We had a ranger, 2 shamans, mage, cleric (boxed by mage and NOT in tower gear), and me. We were using EM 8 pets (other mage was air and mine was water). We were tearing through these mobs as we do in Toskk. We got a named steam elemental and a lavakin add as the toughest fight. Air pet attacked the lavakin and I set my water pet and RS to tank the named (lol) and my water pet was chewing through the named. I used TC and FBO only. The ranger used WS on the lavakin to maintain dps. This was a train brought on us so we weren't prepared and were finishing off a kobold when it was brought to us. We came nowhere close to a death.

Pretty much, this was a cake walk that was a little more fun. Since mobs had more hp's, we got to use a lot more of our aa's during the fight that usually don't get used because mobs die in 30s or less. I'm lucky to see the full use of an RS cast at the beginning of a fight. Today, I was able to get two out on the mob lol I was doing other stuff, like checking differences between live and beta, telling the other mage about the new shinies, helping my bro with getting into UF b/c billing botched one of his accounts, etc. so I was rarely down to 50%. The other mage was lower than that but he had bought the new RS aa's so he was casting that alot. We usually used the air pet as tank but the ranger was able to tank just as well. It shouldn't be much more difficult than that for a similar group make up in T5 group gear and about 1500+ aa's (i'm going conservative here so the requirements may be way less than that). That's my opinion. Take my little vingette as you will. I was there for about 1.5-2 hrs. They had been there longer without me as they had done the lavakin and were killing their last steam elemental when I joined. I was in long enough to kill kobolds and burynai. It sounds like it wasn't that long or maybe mobs have way more hp than I made it seem earlier but the burynai part is difficult because you have to kill 2 of about 6-7 different types and they aren't all that plentiful so the rng on spawn was slowing us down. Nabbed about 4 aa's while there, though. We had one aug and a purity aug drop off the named steam elemental and had one spell gem trade-in drop from a trash mob.

Everyone must be paying attention though. We had the mage/cleric box duo go afk and someone pulled the nestlings. Three came, then the 2 shammies and ranger promptly died. I wasn't by the group when it happened either. I was atop the ramp doing a turn in when I saw the 3 mobs show up on ET so I ran down to help just in time to see the 2 shammies go down. I was invis so I didn't get aggro lol Silly rangers....

[qibrme]

Yes, the mobs in Brells Rest at least are nerfed from Beta in the DPS department.
HP's seem about the same.

Hope they haven't tuned down every zone or it is gonna be a boring expansion in group content.


Sued...