Pet Push

[qibrme]

Anyone have a link to where the Dev's said they removed pet push?

We ran a sloppy raid the other night with 30 melee all on one side of the Named.
The mob was pushed half way across the zone into adds so we wiped to an event we have been owning for a while now.
Immediately pets were blamed for the push.

Hate to have to fight this fight again, but there are some magicians on our raids that are saying pets push, which immediately sinks us in the minds of all the pet haters.

Would appreciate a link if anyone has it.

Thx,

Sued...

[Baramos]

I didn't look for it but I know when it happened. Look around for patch messages from DoDH era. The first place where this became of huge benefit was fighting whatsisname with the Batfur Sash. The day after the change, the change was significant. With swarms. Now they didn't push whatsiname all over that floor.

Remember when you could reposition mobs with your swarm? Try doing that today. Just grab a lavakin or some guy in SoD and put your pet and the swarm all on one side and see what happens.

There is also a very good post on the BL forums in the wayback machine regarding this which calculates pet push VS melee push in loc units. It is not even close.

Your Magicians don't know what they're talking about. Your melee are all bashing indiscriminately. And they are scapegoating pets. And your Magicians are noobs and just throwing gas onto the same fire that keeps re-igniting.

OR

Sony suddenly changed them back without telling anyone. I haven't played in over a week.

Easy enough to test on a single MOB. Grab that wandering Provost area by Bikk and Krant and do a few experiments on them. They'll last long enough to see, immediately, how much push is applied even with a swarm. Attack with your pet, attack with your swarm on the same side, and FBO to underline your point. If swarm and pet push is any kind of a factor you'll see those guys pushed to Kingdom Come.

If you don't get any evidence then the cacophony of melee (who always complain about this, ignorantly) supported by any errant noob Mage(s) will just convince Xslia and the rest of the crew that it is correct.

If I were you I'd do 10 or 20 tests, get start and end locs, describe your conditions, and put tabular results in the forum. To further illustrate the point, grab some of your melee buddies and have them all stand on the same side of the same MOB and try and push. If you don't prove it then rumor will prevail. And spread.

Like always.

[Daiou]

I could not find the link.
I can tell you they did make pets not push and that stayed true for a while but i can confirm pets do push again. When soloing my Air pet has minimal push so i hadn't noticed it but the last few times i used the swarm pets and the mob was getting moved alot.

I was rather surprised to see pet push was back and not seeing anything in patch notes about it.

[Baramos]

Oh brother. Well, if that is true, then I would confirm it anyway, and then make a concise, reasoned, supported post and PM SKlug and Elidroth both. I would do it but my account expires today and I have business to attend to and cannot log in.

Don't expect dumdum to talk to the devs. He can't get his priorities straight and wears a court jester hat. Do it yourself.

Good luck.

Baramos

edit: One last thing. If you had 30 Melee pushing on one side and wondering with ????'s over their heads, get someone to teach them to tank. Of course, you can't be as impolitic as I am saying it like that or it will just turn into a big tough-guy-post and the subject will get buried by the insults.

[Merlaina]

Yes, I'm pretty sure our pets do push. Not a whole lot, but it's there. I know the other day I was fighting a clockwork in close quarters and was just barely in his melee range. 1 RS and Host of Elements later I was no longer being beat on because the pets had pushed him far enough away (almost into the wall, but again, very cramped quarters here so that didn't take much). How's that for lazy? I didn't even want to bother moving.

[Malleria]

They also made some changes to NPC push values in TBS, which I believe returned pets to their earlier huge-push status. BUT THEY THEN CHANGED IT BACK. So if someone tries to throw the TBS changes at you, they're cherry picking patch notes and are wrong.

[JerusEQ]

Air pet + host of Elements + 2 RS pets barely equals just bard melee push. Take away the Hosts and my bard pushes mobs out of melee range all the time when boxing. So yeah, pet push is not much, the only time you may be if you have every class using swarm pets together it can cause some push, but from what I have seen it's far more likely that you have all the melee classes on one side using their specials as much as possible and having it go all over the place, then people try to correct it with the big push abilities and it goes flying the other way and then it just gets worse and worse.

[Piemastaj]

Even after the change in DoDH our pets still pushed the mobs. Granted it was nowhere near what they were pushing before the change. Pretty much have your PET classes use their smurf head and dont send swarm to one area. I normally circle around the mob with my swarm. Iirc it was set so pets pushed at the same pace as an avg melee would push when they change went in. Trust me I been grouping with 4 mages all using swarm and RmS and yes there is some push but only when we use swarm really. And if it was set at same push rate as a regular melee then i could see that, 9 people wuld push a mob some if they were all on 1 side.

Pretty much like it was said before, your guild is using the only uncontrollable variable you have on a raid as a scapegoat for other members not knowing how to do their job properly. Your guild can't have more then probably 10 rogues in it, so that means the other 20 members need to circle around the mob and hit from all directions and the mob wont move, plain and simple.

[Zacatac]

We just did the Crystal Core raid last night, so I would say pets are just fine. Melee can move around once in awhile instead of everyone trying to be at the backside of the mob at once.
Start parsing yourself and all the other pets, add up the damage, and ask your raid leaders if they want to handicap the DPS of every raid by removing it.

[Danille]

is this what your looking for?

07/02/2007 20:12:41 Subject: Re:Spells and push
Rashere
EQ Development
Rashere wrote:
It's funny that you ask that...because we were just looking at it and its not only true, but the key to a short term fix to push. The amount of push imparted on a hit is based on the skill that was used in the attack that hit the NPC. Some attack types do more than others. The short term fix, which we just did and it might actually make the patch next week, was to cut all those values in half. This also led to the answer to the spell question. Where skills get their force from the define for the skill type, spells get their force from the spell define of their knockback force. If the spell has no knockback force, then the push force is 0 so it shouldn't cause any push.
Procs are just spells, so don't add any additional push beyond that imparted by the weapon hit itself.

Rashere, wrapping up the play-by-play of "Devs digging into old code" (emphasis mine)
Out of curiosity, did this make it in time for patch?

Sure did. In the end, we cut push by 90% instead of 50%, so there will be a very noticeable difference after the patch.
Rashere

Mindrix-Triality wrote:
Rashere, are pets also included in this, or will the people who always complain about pet push finally have a point for the first time in 8 years?
Pets attack hand-to-hand unless given a weapon and use the same push calculations as a player attacking the same way. So, they are affected the same.

For the same reason, this also affects how much push an NPC will generate against a PC.

Rashere

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