new stuff

[Aumeldarie]

The issue with the increased mana cost is that it greatly reduces or takes SPEAR out of the mix on our sustained DPS weave.
So while the increase in burst DPS may work out as advantageous, we have taken a hit on the sustained side which should not have been a casualty when FIXING our RAID BURST DPS.

With that being said, I have not seen numbers for the new RANK 3 SPEAR sooo, there is still a slim chance that the MANA/DPS ratio is worth it for our RAID BURST DPS.

The increased mana cost will most likely hurt the group geared and solo mage most since they generaly have a lower mana pool to start with.

A response from the DEV's on their reasoning for making the change in this manner would be most welcome.

Sued...

The mana to damage ratio is actually worse for the increased part on the RK3 it's at .4784. A 811 increase in damage every 4 to 5 spells we cast is not going to fix our raid burst dps.
Old RK3 Damage: 14603 mana: 2773 ratio: .1899

New Rk3 Damage: 15414 mana:3161 ratio: .2051


Here are the numbers for all three copied from Qulas's post on the eq forums.


Qulas_Druzzil wrote:


[26847/7338] Spear of Magma

Classes: MAG/90

Mana: 2739

Target: Line of Sight

Range: 250

Resist: Fire

Casting: 3.5s, Recast: 9s

1: Decrease Current HP by 12563

26847



[26848/7338] Spear of Magma Rk. II

Classes: MAG/90

Mana: 2999

Target: Line of Sight

Range: 250

Resist: Fire

Casting: 3.5s, Recast: 9s

1: Decrease Current HP by 14271

26848



[26849/7338] Spear of Magma Rk. III

Classes: MAG/90

Mana: 3161

Target: Line of Sight

Range: 250

Resist: Fire

Casting: 3.5s, Recast: 9s

1: Decrease Current HP by 15414

26849

Here's the new data.

[Aumeldarie]

Aumeldarie we asked for burst damage increase and we are getting it. It may not be optimal at all, but it is an improvement and it is needed. Some people thought any incrase would have to wait for the next expansion, and some of hoped for this one. We had no idea but the thought by some as Eldiroth said Mages needed more damage we held out hope for this expansion.

The good news, is we are getting it this expansion and possible more in this expansion. That is way better then some expectations, way better in fact. Does the extra mana hurt? Of course, but lets not be ungrateful, lets not stop asking for an augment for spear. Lets ask for a mana decrease once numbers roll in for the increase we see, how long mana holds out etc... We are moving in the right direction. Over all I can't wait for a patch to see the results of these changes, so we can parse and work on the next set.

It is always easy to say well you could have done this or that. That will always be true. The thing to remember is something was done, and it helps us in the area we needed help in the most. Burst DPS, and as a side it helps the group and solo game by more damage per cast, and killing mobs faster. Sure it comes at a mana cost, and some extra down time but with OOC regen, not a huge burdon. Maybe the answer is not to ask for a mana cost reduction that may anger wizards, but maybe ask for a increase in our harvest to return 1000 extra mana and the rods to return 8500 mana and not 7500. That could help offset the mana cost of the new spells. On the plus it helps anyone that gets a rod, so a boon to the raid as a whole.

Have to completely disagree. Mages were fine sustained, and we took an unnecessary hit for apparently no reason. Design like that is crap. Pure and utter crap. Mages shouldn't be happy with what we got, we should be smurf furious.

Caleb you are acting as if I don't know we want burst dps or don't want it myself. I want it I have wanted it. This change is not going to give it to us. This is not an improvement. As I stated in my above post we will be casting this spell ever 4 or 5 spells because of reset. An 811 damage increase is not enough to fix it. If they hadn't charged us the 388 mana for that increase and had given it in the form of a type 3 I wouldn't be against it but we are paying for this tiny increase with our sustained.

I agree with the bolded portion from Malleria.

[Piemastaj]

Like I said type 3 is OFF THE TABLE. It was brought up in FOUR pms b/t eli and myself. It was also denied in beta. Whether we like it or not this is how its going to be. I tried to bring up we are unhappy with the mana and got told thats what was wanted by them. However, if you say this will not increase our burst you are mistaken.

[Aumeldarie]

An 811 damage increase is not enough to fix it.

I said it won't be enough to FIX our burst DPS I never said it wouldn't "improve" it ever so slightly. The PM I got never said the type 3 was off the table and it was sent yesterday. If it is "off the table" as you said we deserve a reason why. The hit we are taking is too great for the tiny increase we are getting.

[Aumeldarie]

As for the whole rod thing I think a larger self only rod is needed. The place we are so getting killed on mana recovery is the raid setting so what about a self rod that can only be used while either in combat with a raid mob or while having a raid timer. This wouldn't "overpower" us mana wise in the group game it would just catch us up to everone else in the raid game.

[Calebe]

Things people are not factoring in. Fire Core upgrade while using twin cast , improved twin cast and first spire, with the new damage on spear. That alone will make our burst that much better then just the damage upgrade on it's own. No one is happy with the new mana cost. Augments are off the table. We asked for and are getting burst dps upgrade at a mana increase.

So in my book we should unite behind increasing the mana returned on rods and our version of harvest to make up ground lost on the new mana costs. The fact the rods help others should not be a concern at all, if it helps us it is all that matters. Harvest we should push for a lower cast time or aa's to make the cast time a lot shorter. Lowering the recast time would help also via aa's or a straight out change to the spell. My guess it will be AA related to gives us a reason to grind for even more aa's as a time sink.

We were turned down on an augment for Spear at least for this expansion. The next one we can ask again. For now lets aim for new avenues, spear costs more mana, Then we ask for a way to have more mana returned to us quickly to help make up the gap.

Once the new numbers are parsed then we can ask for even more DPS upgrades if we are still behind, but we need to show that and not assume it. The mana cost we can see now. So lets ask for a way to improve our mana resources. Don't be negative to the upgrades, be positive and ask for ways to help blunt the blow on efficiency. The main thing remain positive to maintain good will with the devs.

Calebe

[Piemastaj]

Caleb you are acting as if I don't know we want burst dps or don't want it myself. I want it I have wanted it. This change is not going to give it to us. This is not an improvement. As I stated in my above post we will be casting this spell ever 4 or 5 spells because of reset. An 811 damage increase is not enough to fix it. If they hadn't charged us the 388 mana for that increase and had given it in the form of a type 3 I wouldn't be against it but we are paying for this tiny increase with our sustained.

That part in your post leads me to believe otherwise (bolded part). And I am sure you got the samething as I have gotten in the last 4 PMs about Type 3s. It doesn't get talked about, so that means it is off the table for now. To keep harping on about it is just stupid. And I would prefer to not waste dev time, and ask for somethings they will actually communicate about.

[Aumeldarie]

Someone please direct me to a public post where any dev said that a type 3 on spear is off the table.( I say public because the reposting of PM's is a bannable offense apparently.) I haven't been able to find one that explains why they think we shouldn't have a type 3 until I get this I'm not going to stop bringing it up. BTW to me someone just saying no that's off the table isn't enough reason but I would still like to see a post where they actually publicly said that.

[Calebe]

Oh please do not ever ask for a raid only rod. The mana increase on spear effects all mages no matter raid or group oriented. Ask for a mage only fine, but as I said before people turned that one down. In beta I pointed out that if mage only we would never hear, well we can't make the rod give more mana back because it would over power other classes. Most did not want to hear that and instead said I want to be needed on a raid if only for the new rod as our DPS was horrible. We knew it then and well they see it now, and changes being made.

So ask for a mage only version of the rod as we got in the cauldron but aa related. Fine but do not ever ask for it to be for people who raid only. That is one thing I thought we all agreed on.

You want class warfare? That will start it instantly, and I will be on the groupers side. They pay the new mana cost and have LESS mana then those that raid. So you want to drive that wedge in deeper? You want groupers or those that solo to stop asking for burst DPS increases because honestly they may not need it? Or do you want a united class asking for upgrades that help all mages no matter your game play style? That is what I favor and always will.

Calebe

[Aumeldarie]

Caleb you are acting as if I don't know we want burst dps or don't want it myself. I want it I have wanted it. This change is not going to give it to us. This is not an improvement. As I stated in my above post we will be casting this spell ever 4 or 5 spells because of reset. An 811 damage increase is not enough to fix it. If they hadn't charged us the 388 mana for that increase and had given it in the form of a type 3 I wouldn't be against it but we are paying for this tiny increase with our sustained.

That part in your post leads me to believe otherwise (bolded part). And I am sure you got the samething as I have gotten in the last 4 PMs about Type 3s. It doesn't get talked about, so that means it is off the table for now. To keep harping on about it is just stupid. And I would prefer to not waste dev time, and ask for somethings they will actually communicate about.

I'm sorry I didn't specify more. Caleb was talking about fixing our DPS so I said this change is not going to give us the fix we need. I also said this is not an improvement and I meant that as an overall improvement as in we are loosing a lot to get a little as I stated lower in the post. I am fine with paying a proportionate amount of mana for the dps increase this is not proportionate and imo is going to hurt us overall more than help.